To give up breastfeeding now.... WWYD . Please be kind :-(

[Bea1985]

Hello all,

Just looking for a bit of WWYD type advice as I am so emotionally drained and tired, I just can't make a decision.

I gave birth to my beautiful baby girl on 2nd Dec after a very long labour and fairly traumatic birth. We were kept in hospital for 2 nights and were discharged without having properly established breastfeeding. I no know that this was wrong, but as a first time mum who'd been awake for several days (excepting the odd 20 min doze) at the point of discharge I just went along with everything.

I attempted to breastfeed on demand for the first 10 days of my daughters life. To cut a long story short I am sure she was hungry for the best part of this . She also had a very shallow latch, of you can even call it a latch- has never opened her mouth wide to latch (has been checked for tongue tie etc) and basically chewed the middle of my nipples to bits with her gums for 10 days solid. As I don't think she was every getting much milk, she was very lethargic and began to "give up" i.e. Sucking half-heartedly once or twice then falling asleep. I constantly had her and myself stripped off, blew on her, tickled her feet etc and it took probably 1.5 hrs on average before she had done a few visible "swallows". It really was a 24/7 job of her agonising latching on and off, falling asleep, me worrying that she wasn't eating, biting my hand and crying in pain and being drenched in my own leaked milk without time to regularly change or shower. My nipples became extremely damaged, weeping and blistered with cracks that bled into my milk every feed, and I did try nipple shields but the damage did not heal and the wounds opened up and bled every feed despite the shields.

I had several MW and HV visits in this time, as well as a "maternity visitor" who is apparently and expert on breastfeeding. I had lots of advice, some of it conflicting, and was mainly told to "work on getting a deeper latch", shown videos of what a good latch is (I already know this! She won't open her mouth) and told to do loads of skin to skin. I started to become very depressed, cried all the time and was doing nothing with my daughter except change her, and try/fail to breastfeed (us both in tears). Due to my labour and birth (and had no sleep in hospital) I was also extremely sleep deprived by this point.

I should say I have no family in the area , just me and my husband, and he has done his best to support me but has now gone back to work.

So, after feeling like I was on the verge of a breakdown and also feeling very guilty about the constant negative nature of my interactions with my baby, I started expressing milk (with a hand pump then with an electric one) every 2-3 hours and bottle feeding it.

My baby has been drinking heartily from the bottle and is so much more bright eyed and alert than before. Expressing, sterilising and feeding round the clock is just as tiring as before but at least I get to spend some time cuddling my daughter, neither of us is in tears and I know she is getting a good feed.

I've been expressing and feeding for a week now, and whilst it's stopped my feeling quite so low as I was when trying to breastfeed (I've even been out the house!) it's very time consuming, I'm sat attached to a pump for 40 mins every 2-3 hours and am very tired.... And still feeling guilty as the time I'm attached to a pump is time I could be spending with my baby. I never have time to do anything but feed, or feed related activity.... I want to be doing nice sensory things with her, getting out for fresh air, tummy time... None of that is happening.

Today (3pm) I have an appt with a proper lactation consultant at the hospital , I've been waiting for it for c. 10 days.... But I'm not sure I want to go. I'm now thinking about expressing for as long as possible, but less times per day (say 4-5) to get some rest. I'm thinking about giving baby top ups of Hipp (probably at night) and gradually moving onto formula full time.

I know it seems silly to want to give up now, but having spoken to the lactation consultant on the phone yesterday, she seems to advocate carrying on expressing whilst offering the breast/attempting to breastfeed at each feed, then giving the bottle when either of us gets stressed. She also advised on constant skin to skin, taking baby in the bath etc. It sounds awful I know, but I don't want to do all this any more. I want to get dressed. I want to do things other than attempt to feed my baby all night and day. With the attempted breastfeeding, expressing, sterilising and bottle feeding there is no time for anything else. I just want to gradually let the breastfeeding go, but feel so terribly guilty about it. My baby is not even 3 weeks old and I produce a lot of milk.... I just can't get it inside her without losing my sanity!

So I don't know whether to go this afternoon, or just make the decision to move towards formula and go out and get a perfect prep etc.

I'm sorry that this post is long and poorly structured, typed very quickly on iPad whilst baby dozes . I'm not looking to be told that breast is best of that I need to work on my latch.... Believe me I already know these things and am hugely pro BF. The thought of formula from 3 weeks is not something I would previously entertained, but now I completely understand why people do it . BF has probably been the hardest thing I have ever tried to do :(

So... What would others do? Keep trying or make a decision re. Formula and get in with it.

Thanks everyone X

Your post really struck a chord with me. When I had my first dd I tried to breastfeed for about 8 weeks. She was miserable, constantly crying and wouldn't be put down. One day I decided that I would spend the whole day just feeding and if that didn't work then I was giving up. It didn't work and I did give up. Within a week she was a DIFFERENT BABY. Happy, smiley, relaxed, sleeping better. Now if I look back to photos of her during those ten weeks she looks practically emaciated. Ff was the way forward for us and I never questioned my decision.

With dd2, I couldn't breastfeed because she had a cleft palate. Instead I drove myself to near breakdown by feeding, expressing, sterilising everything 6/7 times in 24 hrs. I felt pure desperation to get my milk into her. But when I expressed I realised that I was barely producing any milk! For some reason my body just wasn't making enough - exactly the same as before. So when I was producing less than half of what she was taking (combi-fed with ff) I gave up and instantly life was so much easier and relaxed and I could enjoy her. I felt terribly guilty giving up but looking back it was definitely the right thing to do.

My advice - FEED IN ANY WAY THAT YOU CAN THAT WORKS FOR YOU AND BABY. It's so hard to see clearly from that postpartum fug, but really - just get her fed however you can and stop stressing. You won't regret it.

You must be utterly exhausted . I’d go to the appointment, but in your shoes (and I have a 3 month old, so not that far off!) I’d look to combination feed for now so you don’t feel that good old ff guilt and go nuts from it. Once the pressure is off, you’ve slept a bit and your nipples are in a better state, you can have another go at bf or switch completely to formula.

Your beautiful baby will be absolutely fine either way .

I did everything you did with my first. She couldn't breastfeed properly so I ended up pumping every 3 hours, day and night.

It's hard, hard work because then you have to do all the washing and sterilising on top.

I did it out if guilt and carried on for 8 months. The last few months, I wasn't even getting a bottle a day for her. I cried when the health visitor told me to stop. It felt such a relief to be given 'permission' to stop by a professional.

If I'd had my time again I wouldn't have done it for so long. You've given your baby an excellent start in life. The first few days are the really important stuff.

It's ok to stop. You need to be able to take care of her and yourself and you can't do that if you're exhausted. Ignore all of the NHS propaganda about breastfeeding. It makes me sick every time I see those posters in the Children's Centres. They just cause a massive, unnecessary guilt trip on mothers.

Incidentally, I managed to successfully breastfeed my second child for 20 months. The experience was very different. I've since realised that my first child just couldn't do it and that is nobody's fault.

Look after yourself. You are a great mum for caring so much but it really, truly is ok to stop and bottle feed formula.

I'd go this afternoon but also buy yourself some of the little bottles of premade formula. The lactation consultant may help loads and send you off on your way or it may not. If you have the premade formula you have a backup and don't have to wait for the water to cool etc. Then give it a few days with whatever the consultant suggests and if you want to, move to formula. No one will look at your baby in 10 years time and say oh yes I can see they were formula fed. Fed is best and you need to focus on your mental health as well as the health of the baby. You can always pump once or twice a day and mixed feed if you want. Just remember to reduce your feeds/pumping gradually to avoid mastitis

I had a very similar experience to you 6 months ago,

I destroyed myself for 8 weeks exclusively express feeding.

I introduced formula and gradually went over to Hipp full time by 12 weeks.

I look back on those first few weeks and wish I could go back and put less pressure on myself.

The tears both of us shed was not worth it

You poor thing. The phrase 'breast is best' makes me mad - it's not best if the baby is hungry and miserable because they're not getting food or hydration!!! Anyone who seriously believes that is best for baby over a contended and thriving ff baby needs their head testing. You've given bf a great shot and have endured more than most would have. It's your decision to make but if you feel your mental health could be at risk I really would consider stopping. Maybe go to your appointment as it's taken a while to get and see how that goes but keep an open mind as to what happens afterwards. Your DD is lucky to have such a loving mum.

Someone else here who had massive problems with undiagnosed tongue tie, and then tongue tie not being cut properly. It was only at 12 weeks it was sorted and things got so much better. So may be an idea to see someone expressly trained in diagnosis? to you.

I had what sounds like a very similar experience and we also had a posterior tongue tie. We mix fed for a bit as dd was getting lethargic and hard t wake. Once the problem was sorted we gradually cut back on the formula and successfully breastfed for 6 months. Ds was a much easier experience and fed brilliantly from the start.

My goodness love, parenting isn't supposed to be torture, and that's what you are doing at the moment. You are torturing yourself.

Feed formula, heal up and enjoy your baby. Oh, and get your partner to do the night feeds sometimes, and have a full night sleep. It'll make a world of difference.

I haven't read the full thread but just wanted to shorten your agony. GO BUY BOTTLES AND FORMULA! I had this exact scenario with my youngest son and it took months for my nipples to heal properly. At 16 days I gave up and put him on formula and he ( and me!) was so much happier.

And do not let anybody make you feel bad for not persevering. This is your choice and has bugger all to do with anybody else. Go buy formula and bottles!

I'm sorry to hear how rubbish you're feeling, it's so similar to my experience with my first baby. What I would say is that whatever you decide to do someone will make you feel guilty, and you may have times you make yourself feel guilty, but honestly, do what you feel is right for you and baby now. Bottle feeding saved me from a breakdown but if that's what you choose to kept doing remember to cut down the feeding/pumping gradually as this helps to reduce the possibility of mastitis (I had it with all three of mine).
I'll never forget giving DS his first bottle of formula, he was two weeks old and glugged the whole lot and practically sighed with the relief of finally being fed properly! God I felt bad for not doing it sooner. Anyway, it's your choice, and your little one will thrive as long as she's being fed well, whether that's by boob or mouth.
Interestingly, when I was having number two and the midwife asked how I was intending to feed, when I said mixed feeding no one batted an eye! I do think there's a lot more pressure on first time mums which can be overwhelming so my advice is to follow your instinct, and have confidence in yourself, you'll be great.

This was exactly my situation. I remember the guilt of switching to formula at 4 weeks but it saved my sanity and breasts! My daughter thrived and she's now a very healthy 2 year old.

Go on bottles, what's important is that your child is fed x

I was in a similar situation to your OP.
I expressed all the milk I had until 6 months, from 4 months we also topped up with some formula (one bottle a day at first, then gradually more as the baby started drinking more in total).
It was a bit awkward socially because I didn't seem to 'belong' with either the breastfeeders or the formula feeders, but I felt satisfied that the baby was getting breastmilk (although some had been chilled in the fridge first) and I found that it was hugely useful to be able to measure the amounts coming out of me and going into the baby and for my partner to be able to get involved.

Nipple pain is the most horrendous thing - and as someone said, breastfeeding does mean doing nothing else for a couple of weeks at least.

I personally am a big support of BF - BUT ...I think expressing and bottle feeding is a massive faff! So I think that in your shoes (and no judgement - just telling you wht I would do) I would give it one last go to see if I could get BF established with the help of someone who actuallly knows what they are doing - then if that didn't work within 2 or 3 days I would give up and gradually move to formula.

If you do manage to get BF established there will be no pain, your clothes can stay on (!) and you can live your life normally - the pain and stress does completely go away (hard to believe I know but I had excrutiating pain and it did go away completely)

so - that's my TOTALLY PERSONAL opinion - give it a go if you want to, and don't feel bad about moving to formula.

I do think (unlike many on mumsnet) that breastmilk is substantially better as a food for newborns than formula but I also fed my baby formula and felt totally happy with that...so ...do what you like and then please stop thikning about it!

I have been here OP. Visit the consultant and take on board her advice but if it isn't working, please don't torture yourself. FwIW I saw a LC with second child and it was fantastic xx

Also, if you are going to do formula and can afford it, buy a perfect prep machine straight away, as it saves soooo much hassle. :-)

OP, the 'breastapo' can be very forceful/evangelical, and insistent that you persevere, regardless of how exhausted you are.

If it's just not working for you, please don't beat yourself up about it, and don't let anyone make you feel guilty. I did bf for about 5 months both times, but it was easy for me until then, after which I just didn't have enough to satisfy them. As a wise old GP once said to me, as long as the baby is fed, washed and loved, s/he will be fine.

We have to be so thankful here that a safe alternative to bf is so easily available in any high street or supermarket - mothers in many other countries are not so lucky.

The first couple of months are the worst and I didn’t have any issues with dd. However, I was (am) chronically ill and didn’t have a lot of milk like you so it was very hard for other reasons. I know someone, who expressed for 2 months then managed to bf for a long time after. I know someone with a tongue tied child, who slowly switched to formula feeding when her dd was a few weeks old.

Bottom line is no one can tell you what to do. I’d wait til you’ve spoken to the consultant. I think it’s perfectly ok to say to them you’re thinking about giving up and ask to talk it through with them.

I think the most important thing to do is to get to the bottom of the tongue tie and find out if it needs operating on.

Gosh OP I really feel for you.

I struggled with breastfeeding both of my DDs but I'm glad a persisted.
I think you need lots of help though. I'm not surprised you don't want to go to the appointment, it's hard to drag yourself and the baby out the door. I'd go to the appointment. It's one afternoon. See what follow up help they can provide.

It's no wonder we have the worst breastfeeding statistics in Europe. I friend of mine had a baby in Holland and the HV come and spend half the day with you. Helping feed, tidying your house, they will stay with your baby while you get some sleep.

Have you got anyone who could come to stay to help you?

Don't feel bad about not doing anything other than feeding with your baby. This is pretty much all you do in the early weeks. They dont need sensory/tummy time etc. They just eat and sleep.

Lastly crying is pretty normal too. You can feel awful after giving birth. I cried over the smallest of things so don't be too hard on yourself.

Blood hell OP! I'm a big advocate for BFing if it works for mum and baby but it isn't. Switch to formula and enjoy these precious first few weeks x

OP, if you want to switch to formula, just do it. Your baby has had an excellent start and will grow up healthy. I once read a lovely comment by a GP saying 'There are incalculable benefits to a baby being bottle-fed by a rested, mentally healthy mother'. I thought that was so well put.

And to the poster who said, in her experience, 'if you breast feed a newborn you will do pretty much nothing but feed them for the first 6 weeks', well that was not my experience.

My first fed for 10 minutes every 2 - 3 hours. She was a super efficient little shark feeder. I can honestly say I never had a moment's pain from her.

My second had lots of health problems but still never hurt me when he fed - we eventually had to move on to formula for medical reasons.

My third was an utter nightmare feedingwise - big healthy baby and weight gain fine but my god, my poor nipples! I also had thrush on one side, mastitis on the other. I think his latch was weird although was told it was 'fine'. It was an utter nightmare.

So babies can be different, ime. And yours will be fine bottle-fed.

Good luck

@Bea1985 - please don't beat yourself up, if you do decide to switch to formula.

Firstly, you have done so well to have done what you have done, despite the difficulties.

Secondly, your mental and physical health matter, as does your relationship with your child - and believe me when I say that your relationship will be just as close, if you formula feed - I can tell you that from my own experience.

Thirdly, whilst breastfeeding is a really good thing that you can do for your child, it is by NO means the only wonderful thing you can do for them. You can make food from scratch when you start weaning them, you can cook from scratch when they are children, you can read to them, do crafts with them, take them to places where they can run in the fresh air, hug them, support them, teach them right from wrong - and so many more things.

I did not manage to breastfeed any of mine - the first needed phototherapy for jaundice, and I was told to top him up with formula - and with my child in an incubator, under lights and still getting more jaundiced, I wasn't going to argue with the doctors, but that did spell the end of breastfeeding for him - I did try to reestablish it when we came home from hospital, but failed.

No2 son, I tried and tried to breastfeed - he fed almost constantly, but not particularly strongly, and he just wasn't putting on weight - I had the HV on the doorstep every day or every other day, saying he 'had' to put on at least half an ounce a day - which he wasn't managing. At 6 weeks old, he had to go to the hospital, with a bit of a chest infection, and once there, they kept us in - and I heard them say he was 'failing to thrive' - which terrified me - and they kept us in until I started topping him up with formula, and he started gaining weight. That spelled the end of breastfeeding him.

With No3 son, I decided to mixed-feed from the word go - I breastfed all day, and his last feed of the evening, and night time feed were formula. If he had two bottles a day, he gained weight. If I cut it down to one, his weight gain stalled - so I kept it at two. I managed to keep this going for 12 weeks.

The three boys are now 20, 22 and 24, and all are thriving - they are all healthy, active, intelligent and clearly have suffered no ill effects from not being breastfed.

Please do look after yourself - you are doing an amazing job.

Awwwwwww 2 weeks old congratulations.

"My baby has been drinking heartily from the bottle and is much more bright eyed and alert."

Well there's your answer then. Your baby is happier on formula so keep it that way.
There's enough pressure on you as new parent with out adding unnecessary stress on to yourself. BF isn't the be all and end all and it doesn't work for every mum or indeed baby.

Of course It’s ok to prioritise your maternal mental & physical health and use formula
Enjoy your baby.formula is safe nutrition and your baby will thrive
Do not let anyone get preachy about his yiu chise to feed your baby