To think no actually, English isn't piss easy for non natives

[twiney]

I'm in France and you wouldn't believe the amount of people who have this idea that English is really basic and easy, the irony being of course that they don't actually speak it.

Last night I was out with a woman who got on to the subject of helping her son with his English homework (she literally doesn't speak a word of it).
"Don't trouble yourself with complexity," she appparently told him. "In English they just make really basic and easy sentences. Keep it simple."

She then got onto the subject of English-language music, and how basic and straightforward lyrics are compared to the dense richness of French music.

I was brought up bilingual and between countries so i feel well placed to say that actually most French music is basically just poetry they've added a few instruments to.

But why do people think this? Is it true? Personally I don't see it that way, and I find that with French at least, I would consider it easier in the sense that:
A) Once you've learnt how the pronunciation works, there are practically zero variations on it. You can see a French word you've never seen before, and know how to pronounce it.
B) I find stock turns of phrase crop up again and again in French, whereas I find English "looser".

I can only think it has something to do with conjugation, or lack of feminine/masculine? There's also the fact that I rarely hear English speakers correct non natives, perhaps giving them a false sense of confidence.

What's your experience/opinion?

But in the UK, I'd imagine, any foreign film or program is dubbed into English (as opposed to run in the original with subtitles).

The reverse actually. Subtitles are quicker and cheaper. Which I love as you can hear the original ... means I get to go and make the tea ...

Does anybody know is Russian is similar to Lithuanian?

Learning languages is mainly practice - easier for learning English as it's all around (although these days with the internet it's much easier for other languages too)

Agree with PP that English people are unlikely to correct even bad mistakes from foreigners - I work with many foreigners whose English is not that great and I'd never fall about laughing if they say something wrong - which is fairly common when I'm trying to speak other languages.

Also many of those who can so called speak good English still have a lot of trouble understanding, and won't understand normal speech but only in a simplified format.

Basically English people over estimate the abilities of foreigners to learn languages and under estimate our own abilities - at the same time we are a little lazy and also maybe don't really need to try as much

No, they aren't similar but Russian had heavily influenced Lithuanian over the years.,

@twiney

Thanks for Mubi heads up !

oops posted too soon ...

Just plugged in a few of my favourite non-English films, and it seems to have them

If anyone on this thread hasn't seen "Cyrano" (1990), I can't recommend it highly enough ... the dialog and subtitles are incredible.

Russian and Lithuanian are not similar. Lituanian and Latvain are related, but the respective speakers cannot understand each other.
I love this language tree:
mentalfloss.com/article/59665/feast-your-eyes-beautiful-linguistic-family-tree

Thanks

Don't trouble yourself with complexity," she appparently told him. "In English they just make really basic and easy sentences. Keep it simple.

There are about 7 times more words in the English language than in French (500,000 against 70,000).

So in actual fact French keeps it very simple and basic because their vocabulary is tiny. I found there was only one way to say something whereas in English you could express it many different ways.

There are about 7 times more words in the English language than in French (500,000 against 70,000).

There's a philosophical angle to that statement, in that I am sure that >80% of native English speakers would struggle with 20,000 words.

At what point does having a word in a dictionary (given the lack of any official English language body) count, if less than 1% of native speakers know it. Let alone use it ?

Oh, I'm sorry, sir. I'm anaspeptic, phrasmotic, even compunctuous to have caused you such pericombobulation.

As an example, we have one article: the. In German, there are three.

While the English language has three variations of the present tense, and German has one.

“There are about 7 times more words in the English language than in French (500,000 against 70,000). So in actual fact French keeps it very simple and basic because their vocabulary is tiny.”

Sorry but LOL How can you believe that?

Check out the real figures here.

But in the UK, I'd imagine, any foreign film or program is dubbed into English (as opposed to run in the original with subtitles

I've yet to ever see an entire programme that's been dubbed into English. Some documentaries use voiceovers, which I hate. All foreign-language programmes shown in the UK (admittedly they're normally relegated to BBC4 or All4) are subtitled. I find subtitles really helpful when learning a foreign language. Scandinavian countries use subtitles whereas Germany, France and Spain dub everything.

I feel English usually has a precise word for something whereas French for example has to fuck around getting to the concept, or else just doesn't have the shade of nuance. Example:
To squirrel something away: basic every day turn of phrase. In French we just get "mettre de côté" or "cacher", so basically either "put aside" or "hide", no sense of furtiveness, of carefulness, of steady accumulation.
How about to "sashay": in French we get (according to dictionary) "marcher de manière décontractée" (to walk in a relaxed manner) or "flâner". But the latter is such a lame approximation though, because we already have stroll, saunter and wander: to sashay involves more sass and flouncing.
Speaking of sass, the dictionary gives us "culot" - well, not really, because sass has something fizzier and sweeter than cheek or gall.
And if we turn to flounce, brace yourselves because the dictionary suggests "sortir de manière théâtrale". LOL!!!!

Sure in lots of languages you find there's a lack of nuance in some areas and in others not, but I do find generally English has different ways of saying very similar things, or specific words, where French has to use the same old words to describe it (cant be bothered to do more typing but just think of how you say to stamp, to hug, to clap, to wink, to nod as examples in French).

I’d agree with that, Twiney, re French.

I speak Polish (badly) and find I can get the gist of what they are saying in Ukrainian.

I think people learning a foreign language should keep their sentence construction simple while they are learning so I wonder if that's why she said that to her son. Maybe she was trying to 'encourage' him along telling him English is easy.

I think you should give her a copy of Pride and Prejudice in english and tell her that to this day, its beauty is in its simplicity, right?

I found English pretty easy to learn and yes basic English can be sufficient to get by, which is not the same (I find) in other languages like German for instance.

The bit about the (incorrect) number of words in French and English by PP was really funny!!!

I remember reading that the author Joseph Conrad said he much preferred to write in English even though it was not his native tongue because the nuances And breadth of vocabulary meant he could be much more expressive . We might use one word to convey a very complex idea or a precise mood or image but in other languages that was harder to do succinctly .

I feel English usually has a precise word for something

And yet : Schadenfreude (look at the poster following you ). A word we had to import.

(As far as I am concerned it's now an English word anyway. No one owns words).

@LurkingHusband
Well yeah, German rocks for emotions and psychological terms! There's wanderlust, but I wish we would adopt fernweh too!

All foreign-language programmes shown in the UK (admittedly they're normally relegated to BBC4 or All4) are subtitled.

Yes, that's the thing isn't it - we watch an awful lot less foreign-language programming than most countries do. Mainly because we, like everywhere else, consume a huge amount of US television but for us it isn't foreign-language. I think because of this people in the UK have a really low tolerance for dubbing (which is normally dreadful); some countries seem to just be completely used to it, whereas most English-speakers seem to find it really, really jarring.

NOw verkalkt is a German word I wish we had.

I'm finding it amusing that it's mainly English native speakers on this thread asserting it's a difficult language to learn.

Assuming you're native, we (foreigners who speak more than one language) are presumably in a better position to judge?