To think no actually, English isn't piss easy for non natives

[twiney]

I'm in France and you wouldn't believe the amount of people who have this idea that English is really basic and easy, the irony being of course that they don't actually speak it.

Last night I was out with a woman who got on to the subject of helping her son with his English homework (she literally doesn't speak a word of it).
"Don't trouble yourself with complexity," she appparently told him. "In English they just make really basic and easy sentences. Keep it simple."

She then got onto the subject of English-language music, and how basic and straightforward lyrics are compared to the dense richness of French music.

I was brought up bilingual and between countries so i feel well placed to say that actually most French music is basically just poetry they've added a few instruments to.

But why do people think this? Is it true? Personally I don't see it that way, and I find that with French at least, I would consider it easier in the sense that:
A) Once you've learnt how the pronunciation works, there are practically zero variations on it. You can see a French word you've never seen before, and know how to pronounce it.
B) I find stock turns of phrase crop up again and again in French, whereas I find English "looser".

I can only think it has something to do with conjugation, or lack of feminine/masculine? There's also the fact that I rarely hear English speakers correct non natives, perhaps giving them a false sense of confidence.

What's your experience/opinion?

@LaLaLolly

Well if you read the OP, it wasn't as cut and dry as "is English easy to learn?", more an open-ended invitation for multilingual posters to discuss their experiences.

You don't know that it's just native speakers, just that they're good speakers. I'm multilingual and can see that there are aspects of English that are tough. It's hard to get to a native level but easy to get to a working knowledge I would say.

The point was that a complete foreigner to both English and French would find the latter far more difficult to learn.

I still think that depends on what native language the learner starts from.

Which language would one need to start from to find French easier to learn than English, in your opinion?

They are two rather closely related Germanic languages. It is not as if one is Japanese and the other is Spanish.

Funny you should say that Cote- my Spanish friend who lived in Japan always says that she found Japanese really easy to learn.because it "felt" similar to Spanish.

I found english easier to learn than russian or french.
part to do with exposure.
part with complexity if basic grammar.

French isn't a Germanic language. It's a Romance language.

As described by a friend; "English can be confusing. It can be mastered
through thorough tough thought though" (credits to M.A)

properlavs French is from the Latin origin of speech

It is indeed. But it is still classed as a romance language, unless of course they have changed the criteria .

I'm finding it amusing that it's mainly English native speakers on this thread asserting it's a difficult language to learn

It's a uk based forum, in English, aimed at a uk English speaking audience. So I find that the majority of posters are native English speakers neither surprising or funny (ha ha or peculiar)

I don't think any language is piss easy to learn but English is not a particularly difficult language. It's more forgiving than many other languages when it comes to grammar or pronunciation mistakes. You will generally be understood even if you don't say things in exactly the right order. There's not a lot of conjugation. No feminine/masculine/neutral words. And you can hear and see english almost everywhere so most people will have exposure to it regularly.

It's my first second language but I don't remember learning it. I can however remember the annoyance of not understanding (at age eight) and the awe of suddenly and effortlessly understanding spoken fluent conversation (age thirteen).

“It's a uk based forum, in English, aimed at a uk English speaking audience. So I find that the majority of posters are native English speakers neither surprising or funny (ha ha or peculiar)“

Of course it’s not surprising that most MNers are native English speakers and so are most people who have replied on this thread.

But that was not what LaLa said.

LaLa said “it's mainly English native speakers on this thread asserting it's a difficult language to learn “. In other words, most native speakers of English who have no experience of learning it as a 2nd language are convinced that it’s a terribly difficult language to learn, and those of us who have actually learned it as a 2nd language are mostly saying that it was not.

the only person I have ever heard say English is easy was Czech, also not an easy language to learn either

On fluency, and cultural artefacts ... has anyone seen "Inglorious Basterds" ? There's a scene where German accents suddenly become very important, along with the German way of counting "3" on your fingers.

If have often marvelled at the tales of the SOE operatives dropped into France who had to have their English fillings redone by a French dentist, or the Nazis would have rumbled them.

How good was their French

Returning to subtitled TV ... it can be fun to spot where the text is way off beam from the actual language. Usually it's to convey idiom, But by the same token, it can be quite satisfying to spot a line where the idiom has clearly been missed, and the subtitles are a literal translation.

I'm trying to think if I know anyone who learned English and speaks it as a native. DH is fluent, but not native. He says I could learn Polish perfectly but it would still be obvious I had learned it. Interestingly, he says that as he's been away from Poland for so long and speaks and hears English over 90% of the time, he doesn't always sound native to Poles any more.
I'm rubbish at languages. I hardly speak any Polish despite being with DH for coming up 14 years. I don't know why but I just can't seem to get it. German at school was easier, but even that I wasn't great at. Reading and writing were much easier than speaking and listening, too.

There was a film about an allied agent in Nazi Germany who was caught when she went to hospital for labour and screamed in her native language.

It's not just the vocabulary and grammar, or even accent.

It's cultural references, intonation, giod timed pause. The whole delivery.
But no, English isn't all that difficult.

Interestingly, he says that as he's been away from Poland for so long and speaks and hears English over 90% of the time, he doesn't always sound native to Poles any more.

Despite sounding no different to me, my Northern Irish housemate at Uni always came back from holidays saying that his Irish friends took the piss out of him for "talking English".

My DF occasionally has to struggle to remember words in his native tongue (it can be quite upsetting ).

And when my DGF was getting older, he started slipping back into Hindi - he was born in India, and had a Hindi nanny.

Meanwhile despite being born bred and raised in leafy London, my sponge ear has annoyingly given me a Brummie twang [very]. (Which disappears on contact with Scouse). Even more annoyingly, despite being born and bred in Birmingham, DS hasn't got a Brummie twang (unless he wants to).

There was a film about an allied agent in Nazi Germany who was caught when she went to hospital for labour and screamed in her native language.

There was certain a suggestion in some German circles (believing the truth in that) for suspected females spies to be impregnated and made to give birth. I think "QI" mentioned it once.

Despite sounding no different to me, my Northern Irish housemate at Uni always came back from holidays saying that his Irish friends took the piss out of him for "talking English".

My Dad is Scottish, but has lived in England for over 40 years. He sounds still Scottish to English people, but it's not until he goes back to Scotland that it becomes obvious how much his accent has faded over the years. He goes home, starts talking to someone and suddenly, wooosh, back his old accent (and choice of words and phrases) comes and it is so, so different.

My DF occasionally has to struggle to remember words in his native tongue
Does he not get the chance to speak it much?

@LurkingHusband I LOVED that scene in Inglorious Basterds - so tense and fascinating

In a similar vein, my Dutch exFamily all live in the town that has the name that those suspected of being German spies were asked to pronounce. Despite looking simple for a German to pronounce, the sound at the beginning is said very differently by the Dutch: Scheveningen