To think no actually, English isn't piss easy for non natives

[twiney]

I'm in France and you wouldn't believe the amount of people who have this idea that English is really basic and easy, the irony being of course that they don't actually speak it.

Last night I was out with a woman who got on to the subject of helping her son with his English homework (she literally doesn't speak a word of it).
"Don't trouble yourself with complexity," she appparently told him. "In English they just make really basic and easy sentences. Keep it simple."

She then got onto the subject of English-language music, and how basic and straightforward lyrics are compared to the dense richness of French music.

I was brought up bilingual and between countries so i feel well placed to say that actually most French music is basically just poetry they've added a few instruments to.

But why do people think this? Is it true? Personally I don't see it that way, and I find that with French at least, I would consider it easier in the sense that:
A) Once you've learnt how the pronunciation works, there are practically zero variations on it. You can see a French word you've never seen before, and know how to pronounce it.
B) I find stock turns of phrase crop up again and again in French, whereas I find English "looser".

I can only think it has something to do with conjugation, or lack of feminine/masculine? There's also the fact that I rarely hear English speakers correct non natives, perhaps giving them a false sense of confidence.

What's your experience/opinion?

Some people are too afraid inhibited to speak a foreign language well.

You need to lose your inhibitions to speak it freely.

Sorry, I have a rogue 'afraid' there.

I asked dh last night what he found most useful when learning English. He said "Die Hard".

It took me years to realise that "Die Hard" wasn't German for "Die Harde", that is "zum hartened Kern gehörend" ...

I found "Centennial" (the book + tv serial) most useful.

You don't forget a language

But you do forget words.

I think English grammar is very simple compared with other languages, so at a basic level it's not a difficult language. It all depends on your starting point. If you are German, you are going to find it easier than if you are Chinese, of course. Pronunciation is hard, but again, to make yourself understood, you only need about 1000 words on daily basis.

Once you pass the basic level, I put English at the same complexity level as Spanish

Drifting OT, but it's fascinating how language affects humour. Stewart Lee (who has worked in Germany) commented that wordplay like punning, and misdirection isn't really used in German, as the precision of the language makes it very hard for the "pull back and reveal" double-entendre which English is rife with.

Meanwhile, the French can't get enough puns, from my experience.

Personally, one of my favourite comedians in the UK is Henning Wehn, so the question of language, culture and humour is complex.

And fair play to Eddie Izzard - whatever your take on his humour - to perform in French and German ...

The vocabulary and spelling is more difficult. The grammar is easier than Spanish, for sure!!

"English isn't easy for anyone. You only have to look at native speakers' use of grammar."

The question is whether it is relatively easy to learn as a second language.

There will always be those who are not educated well enough to use correct grammar in their own language. It doesn't necessarily mean that the language is a particularly difficult one to learn, especially as a 2nd language.

"I have no idea whether other languages have the same inconsistencies and quirks as I never got beyond basic French. YANBU."

With all due respect, you shouldn't have such a strong opinion on a subject you admit having no experience / knowledge in.

But you do forget words.

Usually the ones you know you covered in class the week before... or you can think of it in every language except the one you actually want...

I find when I'm tired, my mind just goes blank on the odd English word here and there, let alone any non-native language. I find my active vocabularies drop very quickly without frequent use. Passive vocabulary isn't so bad, so I can still read quite a lot, even if I struggle to string a spoken sentence together.

I love this quote from Mark Forsyth (The Elements of Eloquence: How to Turn the Perfect English Phrase.)

“Adjectives absolutely have to be in this order: opinion-size-age-shape-colour-origin-material-purpose Noun. So you can have a lovely little old rectangular green French silver whittling knife. But if you mess with that order in the slightest you’ll sound like a maniac.”

When I was learning German my brain often helpfully supplied the French word as I'm trying to explain myself to my German teacher. I'd learnt French first, you see. So my brain would just give me the French word if I couldn't remember the German one.

And totally agree with the pp who said you have to lose your inhibitions to speak a foreign language. I was very self-conscious when learning French (not helped by a teacher who was aghast at my pronunciation of "un"), but by the time I did German I was old enough not to care how I sounded so long as whoever I spoke to understood me!