What is actually reasonable?

[TribbleToilandTrouble]

So long and short of it is that I live in a terrace house and I have two small children. They are noisy, and up early. There are also SEN issues with at least one.

So about ten minutes ago, they were having a particulary noisy moment downstairs and one of the neighbours thumped on the bedroom wall so hard the wall vibrated.

The neighbours have complained before, I'm not insensible of the noise my household can generate, we have taken steps to reduce noise (we now take the kids downstairs as soon as they wake up, they have sanctions for being too noisy upstairs etc).

But I'm not at a point of how much noise is actually reasonable? It's 7am on a Sunday morning, am I suppose to stop the kids playing downstairs now?

This is really upsetting, I'd just about calmed down from the last complaint.

[Lizzie48]

Savingofthings

I agree that SEN isn't an excuse to be inconsiderate, but I don't think that's what's been happening with the OP's DCs. They went downstairs, and they weren't noisy enough to keep her awake. (The neighbour woke her up by banging on her wall, which was why she was annoyed with him.)

The DH shouldn't have let them play with toy cars, quiet games should be played in future.

[Eltonjohnssyrup]

YANBU, OP. What are you supposed to do, gag them?

No. They could give them quiet activities to do and supervise them closely.

This morning the children were doing an activity that both their parents were aware normally leads to noise and arguing. It predictably did lead to noise and arguments and no parent was paying close enough attention to defuse it before it got noisy enough to disturb the neighbour.

The OP pays lip service to trying to minimise noise, but as far as I can see just thinks paying lip service then not actually doing anything is enough. As lots of people have pointed out there are plenty of quiet activities like colouring or tablets or low volume TV which the children could do instead. They know the children fight over cars so the cars should be put away.

And yes, if they are getting up very early and one parent can't cope the OP should be getting up with them and going back to bed later if necessary when they don't need to be supervised as closely.

We don't know what the neighbour does. We don't know if he does nights. We don't know if he works 60 hour weeks. All we know about him is that (like most people) he doesn't think excessive noise at 7am on a Sunday is acceptable.

And it is really unacceptable for this noise to be happening when one parent is not, in fact, doing their best to minimise the noise but is sleeping. They are the OPs children. She signed up for sleepless nights and early morning. The neighbour didn't.

It's completely unacceptable for the OP to decide her sleep is more important than her neighbours. Sorry, it is just not on to ask for sympathy by saying you are doing all you can to minimise noise and expect empathy on that basis when in fact you're doing nothing to minimise noise - you're asleep - and your partner is allowing your kids to play a game you're aware always descends into noisy arguments and isn't supervising closely enough to nip it in the bud.

What would the point of the neighbour coming around to talk to the OP? All she would do is say she's doing everything she can and then go back to doing not very much at all.

[swingofthings]

Lizzie, OP says the neighbour had complained before, so clearly not a one off occurrence and sounds like their latest action was them just fed up.

[ToadOfSadness]

Regarding the OP sleeping through the noise:

Some people are immune to the noise because they are used to living with it whereas neighbours are not and the more it happens the more they will be on edge and aware that it might happen.

If OP had not long fallen asleep there is less chance of hearing the noise due to tiredness/deep sleep whereas neighbour may have been looking forward to a lie in which he is entitled to on a Sunday.

[Thehogfather]

What's with all the earplugs suggestions? If op was complaining about the neighbours teens playing loud music all evening would everyone just shrug and suggest loud music is a normal part of life for teens and her dc can wear earplugs if it disturbs their bedtime?

[swingofthings]

Kids tend to get up early and sometimes they make some noise. It's part of life
NO it ISN'T part of life! It is for those family too lazy to be bothered to teach their kids to play quietly and then take them out to places where being nosy is acceptable.

Kids are nosy, but just as they learn to ride a bike, read a book, control their bladder, they are capable of learning to control how nosy they are, even if it takes some time and energy to do so.

[Lizzie48]

It's a difficult one, because we don't know how hard they have tried to minimise the noise, hence the OP not knowing what else she's expected to do. SEN children do present with specific challenges, as I know with my DD1 having Attachment Disorder. (I'm grateful that we live in a detached house.)

I do think knocking on the wall loudly is never justified, but I get that he was probably totally fed up.

[alittlehelp]

Swingofthings. Have you not ever seen a child having a tantrum? Telling them to be quiet doesn't really help. And that's without any SEN to consider.

[Sirzy]

To be fair though it doesn’t sound like this was a tantrum it sounds like it was two siblings arguing over a toy which is pretty standard sibling behaviour so I am not sure how much the SEN side of things is actually relevant as it sounds more like a case of not a sensible activity for early morning or not enough supervision to stop bickering before it escalated

[swingofthings]

Firstly, it's not OP who was at fault there but her OH. It sounds like he let an argument escalate between the two kids and didn't distract them in time before things were bad enough that it would have disturbed the neighbour.

Have you not ever seen a child having a tantrum?
You should have met my DS when he was little, the king of tantrums but I made sure he didn't have one at 7am in the morning. I have been known to also take him into the car until he stopped screaming. However, there is a difference between a kid have a tantrum and hearing the parent dealing with it and a kid screaming and shouting and the parents doing nothing because they think it's normal.

[notsohippychick]

I’m shocked at some of these replies.

Do any of you know about having SEN children? Control your kids?????!!!!!!

[alittlehelp]

With my tantrum king the only way to get him to stop is to ignore him. I guess to a neighbour that might sound like I'm doing nothing but it's not the case. Anyway yes probably not so relevant to this situation.

[stitchglitched]

mrspatel your post is very offensive and others have already been deleted for making such nasty sweeping judgements about children with SN and their parenting.

[TroysMammy]

My DF worked shifts and we were always told to be quiet when he was sleeping after a night shift. We used to tiptoe around the house. It wasn't until I was married my husband pointed out I didn't need to walk on tiptoes around our house anymore.

[HuskyMcClusky]

Do any of you know about having SEN children?

What does that even mean? SEN covers a huge spectrum of conditions and behaviours.

It is ridiculous to suggest that there’s no way to prevent a child from making a racket before 7am on a Sunday.

[stitchglitched]

It isn't a question of whether it is ok or not that children with SN are noisy. Sometimes it is just a fact of life, regardless of strategies put in place to minimise. And the use of 'just' in 'just because they have a disability' is so fucking dismissive it's unreal.

[alittlehelp]

Ahhh that's where I've been going wrong. I'll stop my tantrum-inducing morning schedule forthwith.

[stitchglitched]

There are some utter arseholes on this thread. It is possible to sympathise with the neighbour without making nasty sweeping judgements about children with SN and how they are parented.

[Spikeyball]

I think you need to try to engage them in separate activities in the early morning as some of the noise seems to come from them bouncing off each other.

As a general comment there are some posters on here who don't have a clue. Severe disability doesn't exist in their world.

[Eltonjohnssyrup]

sirzy exactly! And the OP has said that arguing over cars is pretty much standard and expected from her two. So that's really easy. Early in the morning cars are put away in a box and other activities suggested.

The OP can say they're trying to minimise noise until she's blue in the face. But by allowing games which are guaranteed to end with arguments to happen at that time in the morning they are patently not!

Ditto being in bed saying she needs the sleep to function and just assuming that her neighbour doesn't! The best thing for the OP to do would be to get up until 9am when noise is more acceptable then go back to bed at 9am. No saying 'Oh but I need to sleep'. So does your flipping neighbour!

It's just frustrating because the OP clearly thinks that as long as she says they're trying to minimise the noise they should them be allowed to carry on as they want. They're clearly not doing what they can to minimise the noise when they're allowing games which they know cause problems and one of them is asleep!

[swingofthings]

And some people are assuming that SEN means ok to be disruptive. OP has written herself that they have sanctions for being noisy upstairs, so clearly that means they are capable of being discplined for being nosy, wouldn't think being downstairs prevents that.

Disciplining doesn't to mean punishing, being nasty, strict or horrible, it means teaching kids to reduce disruptive behaviour. What did OP's OH do when the kids started to be nosy?

[Thehogfather]

mrspatel pray enlighten us, what about the op inspired you to share your disabilist opinions on this thread? Perhaps your unique knowledge of how all dc with additional needs can just learn to behave should be shared with professionals and experts because clearly you know things they don't.

[Cantuccit]

Difference is we don't lay in our beds and scream at her. We get up and PARENT OUR CHILD!!!!!!!!

@YCAWS Wow, you're such a hero.

OP's DH is downstairs with the kids, and no one is screaming at the kids. I doubt your child is angelic.

Don't conflate your situation with OP's.

Some right scummy posts on this thread.