Only 41% want to brexit now, time to vote again asap

[Idreamofalandrover]

www.google.co.uk/amp/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN1EA0Q6

Biggest swing towards remain now people are smelling the coffee

mothertruck3r

Er, the people who are old enough to remember what it was like before 1973 and not old enough to be dead were born into and lived through the most prosperous period of history. If they think they're so hard done by, maybe they should look at how much it costs their children and grandchildren to buy or rent a home these days. Richer than all the generations that came before them and probably all the generations after them as well. And many of them seem to think they helped us fight the Germans, even though they were probably still learning their two times table when the war ended.

Give me strength.

Really for many people it was a prosperous time

For many it wasn’t expectations were different to think for all baby boomers life was great full of opportunities and everything handed on a plate is ridiculous all generations have struggles and they will differ

I agree if so many hadn’t felt they had been left behind, not listened to or ignored by governments we wouldn’t be leaving

Many people felt this was the real chance of change as Labour and Conservative or coalition governments had let them down

That very very few of us (including myself) really understand the workings of the EU but we voted becuase we were given the chance to and some felt strongly enough that something had to change so votes leave as their votes before felt wasted as nothing did change for them

I believe the writing was on the wall it was just ignored for far too long and what really changed the way people felt was the financial crash

Yes but - objectively - they are the generation that had the best chances in life. The war was over, they had the NHS, free university education for the really clever ones, good job opportunities for everyone else, decent pensions and the ability to buy their own homes.

There are winners and losers in every generation, but, objectively, by almost any measurable criteria, as a generation they were extremely lucky to be born when they were.

My mum is about to turn 60 and she was 15 when we joined the EEC. Even someone who is 70 now would have been 25 when we joined, meaning that they benefited from the huge economic growth we enjoyed due to our membership for almost their entire careers.

I'm 32 and graduated into the financial crisis. I was lucky enough to already have a job lined up when the shit really hit the fan, and I have done pretty well, but salaries have been stagnant and the cost of living has shot up. The cost of housing in particular is ridiculous - fuelled in part by the baby boomers wanting to supplement their final salary pensions (that we will never have) with a nice little buy-to-let or two (when we struggle to afford even a modest home just to live in). I am very very very much one of the lucky ones in my generation, and yet I will never be as well off as my parents.

The generation you are talking about had all those advantages, and then they went and voted for Brexit, which the younger generations overwhelmingly didn't want. The younger generations will now have to pay for it and suffer through the economic and political fallout and reduced prosperity to follow.

So I'm sorry, I just don't buy this whole "older people remember what it was like before the EU and it was better".

They don't remember it that well (unless they are very old), it wasn't better, and I don't really see why we should have to listen to them and "respect our elders" when so many of them seem to be really quite stupid and selfish and entitled.

I completely agree with you on that point Enthusiasm, that sense of disenfranchisement with a governing elite that didn't carry any regard for those unlike themselves. And thereby the referendum was their chance to be 'heard' as it were. But the issue is now that no-one is taking any notice of them or anything else because government is so intertwined with sorting out Brexit. So much so that any other issues that were on the agenda prior to the referendum have had to take a back seat, and will most likely continue to do so whilst Brexit takes shape; including the ramifications of post-Brexit UK. But there we go.

Actually, I would just say I have nothing but sympathy for the "left behind" in the poorer communities of the UK who feel that they haven't benefited from EU membership, but the fact that they voted leave is the saddest and most exasperating thing of all.

My family were originally from a mining community which was pretty much destroyed during the Thatcher years. It's a dismal place, unemployment is high and people seem to have given up hope. Now maybe older people in those communities in particular associate the common market with Margaret Thatcher and think that if she was all for it then it must be bad for them.

But that's not how it works. I think the leave vote was a foregone conclusion from 2015 when David Cameron got his unexpected majority, and he got it because people who would never normally vote Conservative did so because they wanted a referendum.

That means that people from these deprived communities in the north east and the midlands and Wales and Cornwall on some level believed that David Cameron would do a better job of representing their interests than Ed Miliband. Now I know Ed Miliband looked like a complete chopper eating a bacon sandwich, but he would undoubtedly have tried much harder to help those people. And now they're putting their faith in people like Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson and Jacob Rees-Mogg! I'm sorry, but that's insane. Those people couldn't give two shits about them or their families.

It makes me feel so sad and angry.

Who do you think is listening to you OP?

It's time to vote again asap.

I know it's disappointing to not get what you want, and difficult to accept, but another vote isn't going to happen unless we dismantle our entire democratic system, which won't happen.

Olive "Upshot is, if the remoaners are unhappy at leaving the EU (And we ARE leaving!) they can always leave the UK, and go live in a country that is in the EU. You won't be missed."

Actually, if everyone who voted remain left the country the UK would be left with a disproportionately elderly and uneducated population (NOTE - I know this doesn't describe all Brexiters, but statistics don't lie - it does describe a lot of them) and the economic and social effects would be (even more) seismic. So actually, yes, I imagine we would be missed.

Come and join me on the continent, Malvoglia

But whatever anyone feels about the rights and wrongs of Brexit/EU membership it remains that the referendum was a massive gamble taken by one man, David Cameron, in an attempt to placate the right-wing arm of his party.

He essentially gambled the UK to quell a brewing civil war within his party. That in itself requires condemnation. Even if asking people whether or not they wanted to stay in the EU was going to be done, it really should not have been executed as a ploy to keep some rabid Conservative backbenchers in the fold. Even the poster child for Brexit seems to have disappeared only popping up occasionally spouting nonsense; Nigel Farage. He left the nation high and dry too.

Mmm my mum lived in a bedsit similar to what you see in the sitcom rising damp that was our first home then onto a horrible tiny flat in a high rise, my dad suffered appalling racism that was accepted, my aunt worked 3 jobs to keep a roof over her child’s heads, not many working class people would have considered a career let alone going to university a job was just to get by that was life for many not these wonderful opportunities and as for the NHS we have advanced in ways that wasn’t foreseen but take MH services they certainly were not better services around for that generation

And that how life was for many people it improved but it’s far from easy and money and opportunities wasn’t on tap to buy a property most people she knows who did in her age group lived with parents for years to save up that is considered hardship now

If we overturn the 2017 one, surely we should also overturn the 1975 one, on the strength of which we joined the Common Market
The UK joined the European Economic Community in 1973, after having begged for eleven years.

• twelve

We can't just do things because a newspaper poll says that that's what people want to do.

Well I know a lot of people who are living with their parents in their late twenties and even into their thirties for that very reason. Unless you have an inheritance or your parents give you a deposit, living with your parents is the only realistic way to save a deposit for many people (and even then prices are completely out of kilter with salaries).

I don't know anyone who is stuck renting because they choose not to live with their parents because it's too much of a "hardship". I do know plenty of people who are stuck renting because they can't live with their parents because their parents don't have space or don't want them at home or don't live near where the jobs are.

Saying "live with your parents to save a deposit" is a very middle-class solution to the problem IMO, because it's a solution which is more likely to be available to middle class people in practice.

I find it very interesting that the UK is planning to leave the EU a few days before new EU anti-money-laundering regulations come into force.

A gamble that was fully supported by the vast majority of MP’s

Who stood up and said let’s think about this let’s discuss the implications in parliament of the referendum before its agreed upon

And if we re-vote and it goes the other way and we reverse it and then twelve months after that we vote again and we reverse the process again........ Not really possible

That was meant to say tax evasion, not money laundering in my earlier post.

And that poll on the lightbulbs is a joke. It's like a tick-box for All Things Bigotted and Bad.

I know loads of Leave voters - mostly well-educated and not one of them holds any of the above views.

Enthusiasm, that just goes to show how out of touch most of those MPs were. Most of them supported remain but thought it would be good to have a referendum because people wouldn't be stupid enough to vote leave so that would settle the question.

I, on the other hand, was chatting to people on here and on Facebook and reading the comments below the line on news articles, and long before the referendum I was thinking, "shit, they've completely underestimated the strength of people's feelings about this."

Malvoglia "statistics don't lie" - actually they can be made to.

I refer you to a book that my Dad gave me when I was quite young --> "How to Lie with Statistics" Darrell Huff (I think) - great little book.

Also looked at making stats say whatever you want them to as part of an MBA course.

At risk of sounding completely mental, I think there were people who were paid to post pro-leave propaganda on MN in the lead up to the referendum.

And nobody has to listen to "stupid entitled edler" people - any more than they have to listen to anyone else.

Making it about age is ridiculous

I'm 32 and graduated into the financial crisis. I was lucky enough to already have a job lined up when the shit really hit the fan, and I have done pretty well, but salaries have been stagnant and the cost of living has shot up. The cost of housing in particular is ridiculous - fuelled in part by the baby boomers wanting to supplement their final salary pensions (that we will never have) with a nice little buy-to-let or two (when we struggle to afford even a modest home just to live in). I am very very very much one of the lucky ones in my generation, and yet I will never be as well off as my parents.

Sorry, but can you really not see the connection between stagnating wages and expensive housing and free movement?

After the new ascension states joined, many of which while you were still in education, the UK suddenly had a massive, transient workforce who were prepared to take awful wages and live in terrible housing because for them it was only short term. This massively hurt the poorest U.K. workers as suddenly there were people prepared to do their jobs for wages which would only fund a shared mattress but at the same time the strong pound would enable them to save up enough to set them up for life back home when it wouldn't even buy a second hand car for settled UK workers:

And those boomers BTLs wouldn't be worth a fraction of the price if that booming populations demand for housing hadn't meant they could name their price for rent and more and more people weren't scrabbling after a dwindling housing stock.

Everything you're complaining about has it's roots in the EU.

And yes, I do remember what it was like when the EU was just a Western European trading bloc and it was better. I remember growing up in London where people on relatively low wages, like a builder and a secretary, could live in a house with a garden in a reasonable area, run a car and have an annual holiday. Could they fuck do that today.

And what changed that was 13 years of Labour government and an expanding EU.