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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Christmas cards and women changing their name upon marriage!

950 replies

mulledoverwine · 15/12/2017 22:17

I am recently married and did not change my name.

I have been writing out my Christmas cards tonight and have realised that only 1 other woman I am posting to hasn't changed their name and another double barrelled theirs (he didn't).

Everyone else is Mr & Mrs {His Initial} Patriarchy.

I am quite enraged by it all! I have become more feminist as I have got older as I have started to question the norm Hmm more. Especially since reading the feminist boards on here.

I just want to shake every woman who changes their name!!

I am going to get slaughtered here aren't I??

OP posts:
LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 16/12/2017 16:11

MirriVan, I meant to post an apology earlier actually but got distracted and then forgot. After writing that very long post in response to yours, I started reading some more on this thread and then did a bit of a volte face, which makes me a bit of a hypocrite. Reading your last post makes me realise that I was wrong in many of my assumptions, that I've attributed other posters' comments to you and directed my annoyance at you and I apologise for that and for my chippy tone, MirriVan.

Anyway, I'll answer your latest post now.

'Derisory* was the wrong word to use about your posts, they really weren't. Others have been but as you rightly say, I made that particular point about yours and that was unfair to you.

In a later post I said that if I were a teen now, I'd do exactly what you've suggested. It would have been questioned by my mother certainly but actually, if it came down to it, I wouldn't have minded that but I just didn't think of it at the time.

I've read what you've said about 'influence' and have to admit that I'm struggling a bit to equate it to this issue but it seems to me to have a similar parallel to say, Gay Marriage. I used to feel that as long as the partners were protected, why would they need marriage? I didn't see beyond the 'practical', completely ignoring the 'Rights' of the issue. I'm a strong advocate for Gay Marriage now and in that way, I can see where influence really does make a difference.

The 'nitwit' comment is more relevant to other posters who don't post to educate or have a discussion, they just want to be goady. There are plenty of them about. You've been polite in the face of my unreasonableness and you're still engaging with me; I do appreciate that.

I actually agree with you about the name-changing options and, if I were to marry now, I wouldn't be taking my husband's name at all - I'd pick a name and he'd be free to take it if he wanted to - or not - but I wouldn't take his.

For some women though it is important to them to take their husband's name and whilst some of us may be less fixed on that, or not at all, for them, it's part and parcel and they feel the way they do. I would stick up for any woman being ridiculed for her choice, as anti-feminist as that may be. I just would. As I said to a previous poster, in future generations this whole thing may have died out and no longer be the 'norm'

When you explain about cultural-norm in your last paragraph, it really does make sense. I think that some women, like me, sleepwalked(?) into the name-change issue without really thinking of it then. I know that I was just glad to be rid of my dad's name and didn't give it another thought. I'm not uncomfortable with being challenged, not on any point really, but it rather depends who and how. There are some very able feminist posters who put their points across firmly but without trying to be inflammatory and they're the ones who will be responsible for the probable change. It's coming.

Thank you for taking the time to reply, MirriVan.

TheIntrovertedMum · 16/12/2017 16:38

I changed my name because I wanted to. The whole reason feminism exists is so that women have a choice. Don't claim to be a feminist then judge another women's decision that has absolutely nothing to do with you. Their name, their choice. Bye Grin

IsaSchmisa · 16/12/2017 16:49

The reason feminism exists isn't so women can have a choice of surname. It's not even about choice per se, as useful explained upthread.

TheCarteDOrElephant · 16/12/2017 16:53

"The whole reason feminism exists is so that women have a choice."

This is a complete misapprehension, but not an innocent or accidental one. Feminism is not all about choosy choice, with any choice being "feminist" just because a woman is making it. Feminism has been perverted by an all-embracing neo-liberal social philosophy which encourages us to assume that our (very limited array of) choices are all freely and individually made, independently of power structures. Feminism has been hijacked by neoliberalism along with other social movements, and this weak menu of "choices" is what it has degraded into.

Feminism used to be called "the women's liberation movement", because its aim was precisely to free women from patriarchy. But a lot of women absolutely do not wish to be freed - they revel in their participation in its flagship institutions. (There used to be a term for this : false consciousness. But these days if I point out to you that you are colluding with your own oppression, you'll twist this to tell me that I'm oppressing you by questioning your "choices"!)

VladmirsPoutine · 16/12/2017 16:53

But if you say that changing your name to your husband's is a free, feminist choice, you are wrong.

Why? Why do you or anyone think this to be the case?

happymummy12345 · 16/12/2017 16:59

It's not your business what other people do. I couldn't wait to have my husbands name, so much so we planned our wedding in 2 months, so we were married and I had his name before the baby was born and before I was showing.
I don't mind how married women are traditionally addressed, doesn't bother me at all.

43percentburnt · 16/12/2017 17:00

It is very cheap to change via deed poll. When you google it the expensive official looking site comes up. But you can write your own using on line wording or buy online for £2.00. Buy the first one and then type it up again. Get a friend to witness. If you want it to look official buy expensive paper!

Alternatively get future dh to change his via deed poll then change yours on the wedding day.

It doesn’t get stored or logged anywhere. You just use it to change your driving licence - then use that to change your bank, bills etc. House deeds are a couple of £.

Cost is not a reason not to do it.

WitchesHatRim · 16/12/2017 17:01

I just want to shake every woman who changes their name!!

You make your choice. I'll make mine, Thank You.

MirriVan · 16/12/2017 17:04

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

sanesera · 16/12/2017 17:04

Funny that our maiden names are really our fathers names, so when we really look at it.....
ah never mind Grin

InvisibleKittenAttack · 16/12/2017 17:13

Oh lord all these woman who've not changed their name because it signifies they are owned by their DH, yet happily give their dcs their DHs surname, happily showing the world they consider the children more of their DHs family than their own.

A surname is your family name. I want my family to all have the same family name. I class my primary family to be me, DH and the dcs. I might have accepted being classed as a different family to DH, but not the children.

I don't consider my surname to be "my name", it is the name to signify which "group" you are from. My first name is "my name". There's an argument for saying that why should woman be classed as joining their DHs group rather than the DH joining theirs, but it's so bizarre to consider it acceptable and even desirable to give your children a different name to you. Particularly when relationships breakdown, it's usually the case that children are seen as primarily the mothers responsibility.

ringle · 16/12/2017 17:21

Poor OP is wishing there was an edit function.

May I lodge an objection to the "torn apart from your kids at the airport" crap. That's a very oppressive thing to say. The only purpose of saying it is to frighten women. This isn't Saudi Arabia. My name is not the same as my kids' names so I take a snapshot of their birth certificates to show if questioned.airport security are not trying to get women to change their names, they are trying to stop the abduction of children.

VladmirsPoutine · 16/12/2017 17:22

A good friend of mine is a speaker on feminism for WoC.
She once told me she wished that feminism for her meant getting het up about changing her name to her husbands or vice versa etc. I totally understand what she meant now having read this and the other thread.

ringle · 16/12/2017 17:23

I don't accept what invisible kitten says by the way. Nor do I recognise what she describes.

ringle · 16/12/2017 17:26

By the way, I think it is super romantic and lovely to choose a new couple name.

MargaretCavendish · 16/12/2017 17:26

She once told me she wished that feminism for her meant getting het up about changing her name to her husbands or vice versa etc.

Can you only hold one idea in your mind at once? Because I, happily, can care about more than one thing at once, so I can care about many different ways in which women suffer sexism across the globe. Wishing that it wasn't still the norm for women to change their name in the UK in 2017 doesn't mean I care any less about female genital mutilation or the cuts to funding for domestic violence shelters, for instance. I don't have to think two things are equally bad in order to care about both of them.

VladmirsPoutine · 16/12/2017 17:34

Margaret A similar argument was made on the other thread to which you responded similarly and I do agree with you. Compassion, empathy and consideration aren't finite capacities. I suppose it's really on MN that this concept carousels with such frequency.

InvisibleKittenAttack · 16/12/2017 17:38

Ringle - so why did you keep your family name, but not give your dcs the same family name? If you are going to reject the tradition that by marrying you are moving from being classed as part of your father's family to being of your husbands, why accept that the father's family should have more "claim" over the children than your family?

Honestly to me it seems odd to reject the naming tradition for family names for yourself but go along with it for your children.

ringle · 16/12/2017 17:39

By the way I think people who are over 70 were brought up to believe it polite to write Mrs his initial his name. Apparently otherwise it meant you were a widow!

ringle · 16/12/2017 17:44

Hi Kitten,

Well, I had mixed feelings about getting married. In an ideal world we would have just been life partners. But we needed a work permit for DH and getting married got rid of that problem.
It never occurred to me to change my name -I simply never considered it. I didn't have very positive associations with the idea.

grannytomine · 16/12/2017 17:46

I've got bigger things to worry about. Call yourself whatever you like and I'll do the same and I won't shake you and you don't shake me. Easy really.

Maddiemademe · 16/12/2017 17:47

My ex husband changed to my surname and kept it (both my ds from previous relationship and our dd had my surname so it made sense). My girlfriend and I have not discussed what would happen if we were to get married as both of us have children with our surnames. Not the same I know but just saying it doesn't always follow a pattern.

ringle · 16/12/2017 17:49

Sorry, pressed send too soon.

With the kids, dh was worried people might not think he was not their dad. As you say, kids nearly always stay with their mum and there is an old saying "maternity is fact, paternity is hope"

If I had been more passionately pro marriage, I would have suggested the "new family new name" idea perhaps....

grannytomine · 16/12/2017 17:53

Thinking about it my surname is the name of the slave owner who owned my husbands ggg (I think but I might have missed one) grandmother. In researching his family roots she is recorded as "a slave woman" on the record of his gg grandfather's birth. She doesn't even have the dignity of a name being recorded. Did she love him, was she raped? Who knows but he didn't free her or his child but we carry his name. I do find that difficult.

reallyanotherone · 16/12/2017 17:53

I didn’t change my name. Been married 15 years and have never been known as “mrs dh”

Every year we get christmas cards addressed to “mr and mrs dh”.

Its fucking rude. I don’t go round calling them fred when their name is bob. I bet they’d all be annoyed if I did, so why is it ok with my surname and title?