Beyond the pale

[Reppin]

Can we all stop using this expression now?

So I know of the pale of Calais and the Irish version. But I'm curious and wonder if anyone can answer...

Was the area outside of offas dyke considered "beyond the pale"? Or various parts of wales depending on where in history we are?

How about Scotland?

I haven't read the full thread but I always understood it to mean the area where Gaelic was spoken, so only English inside the pale, beyond the pale you could speak Gaelic.

Probably, even if that expression wasn't used. Anyone not inside was beyond the safety of the palisades.

In any part of history... though the English / Dublin Pale is the first recorded as being called that. There may have been many others, but, much as usual, we cocky English empire builders seem to have got there first...possibly because we wrote the appropriate history book

Don't know about Scotland - though the Wiki Thing tells me that there is a replica fortified village in Duncarron, so they must have had them too!

Beyond the Pale is a Jewish saying. The Pale was a Jewish settlement in Russia where there was a huge massacre.
Thats why it means 'something that is worse than usually bad'.The Pale was bad; beyond the Pale is worse.

Why would they use a Celtic name for a Jewish radio show?
www.beyondthepale.org/

Has anyone got snow?

No seasons. I did think we might be in for a second round but nothing so far. Just as well, it can get repetitive

Irk there are about four hundred years between the English and Russian Pale... it has a lot of meanings, all based on being outside is less safe than being inside!

And it isn't a Celtic word!

Beyond the Pale is a Jewish saying. The Pale was a Jewish settlement in Russia where there was a huge massacre

No, that is a separate and later origin coming from the pale of settlement. The english phrase beyond the pale refers to the Irish pale specifically, which predates your usage by centuries.

I had no idea till this thread that The Jewish Pale Of settlement wasn’t the only Pale. Will be looking up the Irish Pale which is the origin of the phrase.

I’m Jewish. Other then my grandparents and some aunts and uncles, who managed to get to the UK, most of my family were killed when the ghetto they lived in in Lithuania was completely destroyed. I can’t say however that the phrase ‘Beyond the pale’ offends me though.
As a Jew there are things that upset and offend me far more than this phrase.

OP, you're a little misguided on this.

I think its possible 2 groups developed the saying independantly for their own reasons.

I dont think its reasonable to try to ban it.

Pale was likely more general than that. The Pale of Calais is another early example.