Beyond the pale

[Reppin]

Can we all stop using this expression now?

[BitOutOfPractice]

I think polls have shown that considerably less than half are now pro-brexit.

But the point I was rather clumsily making is that the brexit vote doesn't mean most brits are a bunch of racist or xenophobes

[QueenofHibernia]

I'm Irish, the use of the pale doesn't bother me. There's a lot more incidences of anti-Irish sentiment (Paddy wagon? Throwing a Paddy?) to get worked up about.

[BlazingPaddles]

I'm Irish and I know the origin of the phrase.

And I will continue to use this phrase thanks all the same.

[MiraiDevant]

lmforestryltd.co.uk/2016/03/11/pale-fencing/
Just in case anyone wants to buy their own pale-fencing.


(By the way are you ok with walls OP?)

[RoseWhiteTips]

LivLemler

Who said it had anything to do with skin colour?

Just being preemptive, actually, given the level of understanding on this thread.

[AreThereAnyUsersnamesLeft]

I wasn't commenting on whether British people like Brexit though. I typed a list of things that piss Irish people off. And I was slightly parodying Irish hypocrisy in what I said.
I acknowledged that some of the best informed commentators on the Anglo Irish relations are English.

But what does grate is when uninformed British people are OUTRAGED that the Irish should have the temerity to object to Brexit and act as though the Irish sticking up for their legitimate rights is an outrageous interference in British affairs.

Which particularly hits a raw nerve given that a fair few of the problems in Ireland over the years were worsened by the British 'interfering'. Not just the British mind. The catholic church helped massively but it is easier for us to blame the British :)

#tansplaining

[BoreOfWhabylon]

Most human societies, going back into the mists of time, have exiled miscreants, casting them out from that society. It is the ultimate punishment/expression of disapproval.

There are various expressions in english (and probably other languages) that reference this, including 'beyond the pale' and, indeed, the word 'outcast'.

[fidgettt]

Barbarian is certainly a pejorative term and I'd suggest "differently cultured".

🤣

[BitOutOfPractice]

Do you think the op thought the phrase referred to skin colour?! That hadn't occurred to me!!

[OuaisMaisBon]

BOOP - it was either that or the Irish Question, I think?

[BitOutOfPractice]

I assumed she was referring to Ireland. But now I've just realised she might have thought it's offensive because it refers to skin colour (which it doesn't!)

[squiggleirl]

I'm Irish and never use the phrase. It wouldn't enrage me, but I also wouldn't consider it appropriate as it all comes down to the use of a capital letter in my mind.

When I was in school we were taught what a pale was. We were also taught about the phrases 'beyond the pale' and 'beyond the Pale'. As others have said, without a capital 'p' it means beyong the fence. With a capital, it means outside of English rule.

I wonder, if given the fact I'm from a part of the country that was outside of the Pale, and the negative meaning of the phrase 'beyong the Pale', is that why use of the phrase 'beyong the pale' is not that common where I live.

[LolitaLempicka]

The OP states it is because it refers to The Pale in Ireland, not skin colour. Who would think it refers to skin colour?

[CuriousaboutSamphire]

But, as many have said, there have been many Pales, with a capital P... the one at Ashdown Forest is the Pale; The Pale of Settlement, Russian; Pale of Dublin and the Pale of Calais.

First used in print in C17th, an ill fated love story, I think!

The Irish Pale is the first that we know about, but doesn't mean it's pejorative against the Irish... it just means that going outside the palings meant you were leaving the area where rules and institutions of English society held!

Not really all that nasty!! Nothing really to get het up about.

[StrangeLookingParasite]

The op is possible also someone who gets themselves in a knot about niggardly, too.

[StrangeLookingParasite]

PossibLY thank you autocorrect.

[Iwanttobe8stoneagain]

Dear lord - some people seriously need to get a grip. It doesn’t matter. Save your anger Op for the perpetrators of domestic violence or something which is actually relevant to modern day living

[CuriousaboutSamphire]

Strange You'll get shot!

None of the Ever Angry seem to be able to accept that nigg a r has a totally different root!

[grabs the popcorn]

[BlazingPaddles]

Look like your popcorn will got to waste.

[CuriousaboutSamphire]

It does, doesn't it?

I shall park it for the next time... there is always a next time!

Or there was last time I was here a lot. Maybe things have changed!

[RoseWhiteTips]

Isn’t wiki helpful for those who need to list Pales...

[RoseWhiteTips]

Or pales.

[RoseWhiteTips]

Or even, were the discussion to take yet another turn, pails!

[CuriousaboutSamphire]

So are books about all sorts of odd historical stuff.

If that was aimed at my post I feel the need to say that didn't use the wiki thing.... and I've been to the Ashdown Pale, read part of the C17th Poem (it was just a bit stultifying). The others are just general knowledge, if you like massing a lot if useless knowledge, and I do!

[SisyphusDad]

This really is a double plus ungood discussion.