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AIBU?

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Original poster

For crying out loud, I'm not snobby! Or am I?!

564 replies

NoBreakNoProblem · 14/12/2017 10:13

I moved to this area a year or so ago to be closer to work. It's a predominantly a working-class neighbourhood (nothing against the working class, BTW, my parents were ones - it's just a description). Except I tried so many times to be friends with the neighbours and other parents at my child's school. Everything goes perfectly fine and pleasant until they learn about what I did for living.

It usually goes like that: what do you do? Ah, well...I'm an academic researcher/university lecturer. Then, almost every time, a deafening silence follows! Almost always, they try to avoid speaking with me afterwards. Some even stopped saying 'hi' - including the parents of my child's best friends (they came to my house a couple of times before).

For the love of God, I'm not the 'elitist' snob they think I am. Take for example this, the other day the plumber came to fix something in our house. We were chatting and having a laugh for nearly an hour. As soon as he learned what I did, his attitude changed completely and started to stonewall me by being 'too formal'. It's either they don't understand what I do, hence the silence, or think I'm that educated snob similar to those posh snobs who have driven the country's working-class into the gutter. Then again, why the stonewalling and the avoidance? I don't really speak philosophy or political science to them.

I never ever experienced this before - until I moved into this area.

Please tell me what's going on?!

[Message edited by MNHQ]

OP posts:
SheGotBetteDavisEyes · 14/12/2017 20:01

You are not coming across well on this thread. Patronising is an understatement. Self-aggrandising, quite possibly. If this is how you speak to working class people in person, I would be not one bit surprised if you were rubbing them up the wrong way

Sorry OP, but this is also my opinion.

Due to work and family I know a fair few researchers and lecturers - probably about 30 - pretty well. The majority would probably say they are working class. I'm not detracting from your achievements at all, but I remain baffled that all these people suddenly clamp up and become tongue tied in your presence because you're a researcher at the local uni.

Its not about 'dumbing your job down' Hmm; it's just a job. The reality is that most people don't really give two hoots what other people do, and they're just asking to be polite. Unless someone is something spectacularly interesting, it's just chat.

It's also perfectly possible that your plumber has a daughter/sister/mother who is also a researcher/lecturer...

AccidentallyRunToWindsor · 14/12/2017 20:16

90% of Portsmouth is a working class area OP yet I seem to have been able to make friends with people from all walks of life, despite my disadvantaged start in life 😒

Honestly- I think it's you.

PrincessoftheSea · 14/12/2017 20:29

Education is a firm MC marker so doubt our universities are populated by WC lecturers and PHD students.

The fact that its more MC who get into higher education is also one of the main reasons why social mobility is low in the UK

TabbyMumz · 14/12/2017 20:35

Can people define working class? And who sits in this category? I find it strange that people still see it as a thing? When growing up I thought working class were people working in factories or tradesmen, who might live on council estates or very small terraced houses. Tradesmen these days like plumbers, electricians etc are extremely well off and might live in redrow estates. Are they still considered working class? My estate has semi detached houses and detached four bedroom houses and is populated by a mix of roofers, accountants, professional people, teachers etc...a good mix...so what would you call my estate?

I also don't believe if you are born into working class you stay working class. My parents were born working / lower class with not much money, but made good and sent us all to private schools. As a result we are all in professional roles with degrees and higher professional qualifications. What class are we? I don't see myself as being in any class.

The whole thing is ridiculous. I really didn't think it was a thing and tend to think people who refer to it are being old fashioned and condescending.

PrincessoftheSea · 14/12/2017 20:49

I don't think its one definition, but rather class markers, education being one of the strongest.

Its not old fashioned or condescending to recognise that there is a class system in the UK. There are also class systems in other European countries just often not as pronounced. Only if you recognise the class system, can you do something to address the obstacles faced by WC children getting into higher education and so increase social mobility. I also think its important to understand for example why Brexit happened and why Trump was elected.

TabbyMumz · 14/12/2017 21:20

Princessofthesea...but who are these working class children? Children of trained qualified tradesmen, or children of people who work in a factory or a shop for a few hours a week, or children of educated people who work in well paid jobs in offices? I would say the majority of these children get a good education and have chance to progress if they want to? The ones I would worry about, who might need extra support are those children from what some people might call lower classes, drug addict parents, half their family not there or in prison etc. I think we can recognise some people are better off than others for whatever reason, but don't think we need to put a class liable round their neck that feels a bit outdated. Some countries do still have a class system, but not all. I thought we were in a much more progressive society these days. I don't feel like I'm in any class and would be cross if someone labelled me as being in one.

TabbyMumz · 14/12/2017 21:23

I think people are being condescending when they think they can label people as being in any class. No one can define what you are except yourself.

NewPapaGuinea · 14/12/2017 21:25

You can apply that theme of conversation to any "class levels". You need to make it relevant to the other person. Now, I'm not being patronising, but the setup you have is a dead end

PortiaCastis · 14/12/2017 21:29

Or merely say I'm a knob

BarbaraofSevillle · 14/12/2017 21:29

It is also condensending, and simply untrue, when people make out that working class people are not interested in education or their children achieving or going to university.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 14/12/2017 21:32

Without meaning to be offensive, I can't see many people being stunned into silence at the revelation you are a lecturer

Thirding this. If you are in a city which has a university it would hardly be surprising to meet someone who is a lecturer.

Take for example this, the other day the plumber came to fix something in our house. We were chatting and having a laugh for nearly an hour. As soon as he learned what I did, his attitude changed completely and started to stonewall me by being 'too formal'

I think I would prefer if a plumber just got on with his job.

PrincessoftheSea · 14/12/2017 21:39

Its not condescendin. Anyone who have studied sociology at A levels and up will be familiar of the concept of class. Its just a way of grouping people with largely similar education levels, interests and behaviours.

Noone is saying WC people don't want to educate their children, but its still true that not many WC children access grammar schools or higher education. Camebridge and Oxford are not filled with WC people. To understand why that is, you need to achknowledge that classes exists.

Anyway, i think there is a knowledge gap on hereWinkso I am out.

yousignup · 14/12/2017 21:50

I'm a judge. That's a conversation killer if ever there is one.

TabbyMumz · 14/12/2017 21:54

Princessofthesea....you still haven't been able to explain who these working class children are though? Most of us on here are familiar with the concept of class you don't have to have done a level sociology to have heard of it. I simply think it's wrong in our modern society and outdated to think you can label people. How do you label them? Who has that right? I also think you are getting very very mixed up between what used to be called working class and what used to be called lower class. I would say most working class people access some sort of higher education, certainly as the school leaving she has increased.

wherethevioletsgrow · 14/12/2017 21:54

I've just read your opening post again and actually your grammar isn't great for an academic. I'm guessing too that you aren't in a substantive academic post with a 4 research trajectory and a couple of monographs behind you with top class publishers. Perhaps you are coming over as a little pompous for your actual status.*

Wow, aren't you lovely? That's the sad part about academia for me- people like you who make judgements and statements like that. Maybe go back to patronising your builders instead.

TabbyMumz · 14/12/2017 21:55

School leaving age...

SheGotBetteDavisEyes · 14/12/2017 22:10

Noone is saying WC people don't want to educate their children, but its still true that not many WC children access grammar schools or higher education

I don't think that's true, but I'd be interested to know your sources on that. Oxford and Cambridge are not representative.

There are many people who come from 'working class' backgrounds working in 'traditionally middle class' careers.

I know several (as said upthread) lecturers and academics that are fiercely 'working class.' Lawyers as well. I have no reason to think my circle is particularly unusual.

BarbaraofSevillle · 14/12/2017 22:10

Agree that class stereotypes and 'markers' are outdated. Apparently my intelligence and interest in science comes from my paternal grandad, but he was from an era when people like him left school at 14/15 to earn a living as a miner to support the family. If he had come from a wealthier, but not necessarily middle class family, perhaps he could have gone to university?

He bought me lots of junior science books when I was a child, but sadly he didn't live to see me go to university and become a professional in a scientific field. My dad also had interests that would be considered surprising for a miner, so again not stereotypically working class. I don't think we are particularly unusual amongst our peers. DP, while from a similar backgroung, is a talented musician who was bought an instrument and had lessons as a child.

I'm thinking that these 'class markers' are nowhere near as strong as people make out, especially now. Things like sushi, hummus, lentils and cooking from scratch are seen as a niche middle class foods in the UK, whereas in the countries that these foods originate from, they're just food that people from all backgrounds eat. Are people reading class and class markers in people where they simply don't exist or are very weak?

RoseWhiteTips · 15/12/2017 00:13

wherethevioletsgrow

I've just read your opening post again and actually your grammar isn't great for an academic. I'm guessing too that you aren't in a substantive academic post with a 4 research trajectory and a couple of monographs behind you with top class publishers. Perhaps you are coming over as a little pompous for your actual status.

My thoughts too...

LlamaClock · 15/12/2017 00:53

"nothing against the working class, BTW, my parents were ones"

Were ones? And you lecture at a university? Didn't your posh school teach you grammar...?

blackdoggotmytongue · 15/12/2017 01:16

I am lol at this. When I moved from the shires (mum was a cleaner, dad was a sales rep) to a university city, I got a lot of 'you sound well posh' and quite a bit of bullying based on assumptions about my accent from two or three kids. I had completely forgotten about it until this thread.

I've read two threads from this op today and he mentioned what he did for a living on the other thread too (where it was completely irrelevant).

oh and he's single if anyone is interested. I'm assuming shy school mum is working class, which is why he needs to figure out how to communicate with the peasants effectively prior to drumming up the nerve to talk to her at the school gate.

blameTheGame · 15/12/2017 02:30

I met some poor people once and quite liked them but I didn't then walk away and discuss the 'knowledge gap'.

I think the problem is you OP.

Peanutbuttercheese · 15/12/2017 02:42

I worked higher education for 25 years.

Your comment about knowledge gaps sums up why I found working in that environment a pita sometimes.

So your PhD what was it all about because you may be an expert on a teeny tiny obscure part of a subject but it means nothing outside of that arena.

Some PhD thesis while I won't deny they aren't a lot of work are actually not that useful at all.

GameChanger01 · 15/12/2017 05:56

I was born to semi working class parents. Ok my mum was a nursing auxiliary and does now have a degree. Father is a solicitor but semi retired and has a degree and several business/accounting qualifications.

I attended a state catholic school and then university (medical school). I am now an Ophthalmologist (just completing my CCT) with a post graduate fellowship also hoping to do am MBA. I consider myself middle class but I do not live in the most fancy area of my city and have lots of friends who are WC. They all say I have a posh Home Counties accent and don't know what I'm doing living here but hey it's cheap!

The guy I'm dating is a decidedly a "snob" complete opposite upbringing very posh middle class and also a Consultant Dr but would never live here. I think it became a serious relationship he would want to buy together in a affluent area which to be fair I understand due to the importance of good independent schools.

AmeliaFlashtart · 15/12/2017 07:06

Most people I know answer that question with where they work not what they do. Pilots I know will say they work at the airport, if pressed will add dealing with passengers. I know someone with a documentary worthy job who says they are a civil servant to kill work talk. Try that OP, you may be coming across as self important.