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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to ask WTF is going on with the UK state education system?

129 replies

pootleperkinandposy22 · 13/12/2017 11:23

OK it’s a long one...Have things really changed this much since I went to school in the eighties? Secondary school has been a baptism of fire for my kids.
I am so sick of all of this. People tell me that our school is bad and we should move our kids but I don’t see any better schools. OFSTED graded this school GOOD. What does that say about OFSTED? Anyone who thinks theirs is better-do you REALLY know what it is like? What about the teachers- what do you think?

I do not think that the education system is fit for purpose. Our kids are forced to go there and now that most of them are academies, there is no come back for their failings. Teachers train for the incentives and leave as fast as they can, getting jobs in the private sector and lifelong learning sector where they know they will have an easier time.
There is a constant lack of teachers, too many overpaid temporary staff who are not appropriately qualified and many teachers off sick (probably with stress!).
They are hot house exam factories who fudge the figures by applying pressure to get children to drop subjects they think they might fail and pressuring the more able to take more and more exams.

This is designed to make parents withdraw any children who do not fit the requirements for great exam results and pay for private schools or Home educate. How many people can do those things?

It is going the same way as the NHS...

The government is incredibly short sighted. They are storing up huge problems for the future by failing so many children who will still go on the unemployment register (albeit a couple of years later) or commit crime/suicide.

Why is it that the government is so out of touch with reality? Is it because most of our ministers sit in their ivory towers just assuming to know what to do with the masses? Most of them AFAIK attended private schools so have absolutely no idea what is going on.

Why should these incompetents be allowed to run the country just because they went to the top schools?

Senior leadership team are unreachable, overpaid sales people; only present at recruitment events and performances and any problems are deflected on to the over worked heads of year.

Behaviour and discipline are appalling. ‘Problem’ kids (you know- the arsonists/one who bring knives in to school/ones who continually beat up the younger ones) are brushed aside and ignored or given ‘special’ responsibilities to help build their self –esteem. The hard working bread and butter kids who just try to get on with it are ignored and not given any privileges or rewards. This creates resentment amongst the kids and demotivates the ones who would have the ability to achieve.

One of my DC’s is in the so-called top set. Not through giftedness but just because they want to work and most of the others do not. That appears to be the only requirement. DH thinks this will protect them from the disruptive kids but some difficult kids (who cannot cope with the work!) have been put in this set now too, to encourage them to try. This doesn’t work. It just stops ALL of them from learning!

Btw even if my DC could get in to a Grammar school, firstly we are uncomfortable with the pressure there and secondly, there aren’t any Grammar schools in this area. Why is that also a postcode lottery?

There are looked after kids who are completely messed up and understandably bring their problems to school. Self-harming is a daily occurrence, they are crying out for help, emotional blackmailing their friends and trying to kill themselves on a regular basis.
The teachers really don’t care about this. All they say is that they know about it and tell the concerned kids to go away and get on with their work!

The teachers are over stretched to the point of desensitisation for the children, they seem to see so many problems that they just do not care anymore.

These children are also physically and emotionally abusive to the other children. They call out continually in class, swearing at the teachers and goading the kids and generally being disruptive.
They are not punished quote :-
“...because they are in care and have a hard enough life anyway”

This is the only way these children are helped? By cutting them some slack instead of helping them with their problems? What about the other children?

I spoke to a social worker friend of mine and she said that the child who tried to kill themselves would probably be seeing a psychiatrist once a week anyway and there is only so much they can do and that they don’t know how to put these broken children back together again.

Why do children who are distressed as much as this, have to go to school and be forced to learn? How could you possibly concentrate on school work when you are so unhappy you are trying to take your own life?

Can any teachers comment-is this highly unusual to see children doing this or is it seen in most schools? I’m trying to see if it is just a really poor school who cannot deal with these problems effectively.

As for the kids with SEN. We have seen friends whose DC’s support has been withdrawn with the excuse that these kids have made so much progress that they do not need the help anymore. This is simply not true. They struggle, fail and are miserable and act out causing further disruption to the school.

The excuse every time is there is not enough money. Why not? Stop paying temporary staff over inflated wages. Perhaps stop subsidising the bars in parliament and use that money. How about stop giving MPs pay rises and pay them the same as public sector workers. That should help!

Arrgh! Ok rant over. I am just disappointed. Is it possible to have a decent state education and enjoy it too? Is our school just really really bad and we are very unlucky or is this just what we all have to put up with?

If you got this far then thank you for reading!

OP posts:
Crusoe · 13/12/2017 12:15

A lot of what you say is correct OP although I take issue with some of what you say about Looked after Children.
The education system is a shambles failing so many different groups of children and young people. The SEN system of EHCP’s is not fit for purpose, inclusion is a lot of the time a myth, teachers are over stretched and in some cases woefully under skilled in issues they have to deal with.
It feels like there is a big push on one size Education for all. Instead it fails most.

BarrowInFurnessBusDepot · 13/12/2017 12:18

We’ve had to withdraw ds2 from secondary school and he now has his schooling online due to ongoing issues with bullying. He has aspergers and has received no help or support whatsoever. We’ve had to pay privately all the way. We’re not well off, but we’ve had to find the money somehow as he was suicidal.

Mental health support for young people in our area is severely dysfunctional and passive aggressive towards you if you seek help for your dc. We had to give up as it was so difficult to deal with (I have aspergers myself so was struggling to cope with the way they conducted themselves).

I feel endlessly sorry for teachers in having to deal with everything they do. The kids coming through the system now are so awful compared to when ds1 was at school. Even he noticed the deterioration in behaviour and conduct of year 7s when he was in 6th form.

God alone knows what’s going to happen in the future to both education and healthcare, but certain sections of the community don’t help things by the abuse of both systems and of the poor staff who are struggling to cope. The public need to take a good hard look at themselves and take responsibility for both themselves and their kids.

To anyone who’s kids are struggling at school - I can recommend online schooling. Yes they lose some social interaction opportunities, but these can easily be found elsewhere within your community, and do kids really get anything out of being bullied and having to spend their days with the destructive types anyway?

ReinettePompadour · 13/12/2017 12:23

This is exactly like my dcs high school but I'm fed up of being told I'm wrong about it or its incredibly rare for schools to have these sorts of issues. Angry

The difference between your school and ours is that every single child, no matter what their ability, is now only being offered 5 GCSEs and the remaining 3 subjects to make up the remaining 'progress 8 pots' will be BTECs instead. Theyre doing this because they believe its will give more time for core subjects to be taught (English, Maths, Science) and will give everyone better grades overall Hmm because they will have more time dedicated to fewer subjects.

My dd is beside herself as she wanted to do 10 GCSEs that have been available until she made her option choices and she is aiming for Oxbridge Universities. She wants to do the extra subjects. I am well aware she can do the extra subjects somewhere else after school and in her own time but why should she when its always been an option at her current school?

The constant disruption and change of staff really is very disruptive for all children. DD tells me she has read the same chapter of the same book in English for the last 3 weeks because theres so much disruption from students since they removed bands/sets/different ability classes that the teacher, who has been different every lesson for the last month, just cannot move on. The idea was that the lower attaining students would be inspired by those top attaining students and get a grip and work harder. The outcome is unruly disruptive classes with little or no progress.

The SLT keep telling me to 'have faith in them' and that 'things will improve once everyone is used to the new system' but this has been ongoing for quite a few months with no improvement. When my ds went to that school it wasn't like this. Its a new thing with a new (young and modern) head.

Its my biggest worry in my life whether the school will fail my youngest children, even more than not knowing whether I will find a full time job despite looking for 4 or 5 years or whether my injuries from a recent crash are permanent. I shouldn't need to worry about schools.

MiaowTheCat · 13/12/2017 12:26

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

RoseWhiteTips · 13/12/2017 12:28

AssignedPuuurfectAtBirth

There is no UK schools system. Different in NI and Scotland. V different

Exactly. A little research woukdn’t go amiss.

Camomila · 13/12/2017 12:30

Primary school in the 90s and secondary in the early 00s here...lots of money under new labour and no social media yet, I feel very lucky.

I'm friends with some 21-22 years old through uni and they are all so anxious and competitive :(

Kazzyhoward · 13/12/2017 12:33

DD1 was obviously on target to hit all her end of year expectations... so they left her to rot essentially

That's nothing to do with being an academy. That happened long before academies in the old days of LA control. Education in England has been crap for 50 years, it's certainly nothing new.

SweetieBaby · 13/12/2017 12:38

Acadamisation is the worst thing to happen to education in years. They are accountable only to the secretary of state for education and are not fit for purpose. The government, having forced every school to become an academy, and now applying pressure to individual academies to join multi academy trusts, are never going to admit it is failing. Data is being "managed" to make it look like performance is good. Children are being de selected from exams, forced to take subjects that they don't want to do simply to raise outcomes, students at one school within a trust can be enrolled at another school with better data taking the hit, making the first school's data look better. In my experience OFSTED are equally culpable. They can choose to focus entirely on a very small area of a school and then extrapolate their report to make the school look bad (therefore potentially forcing the school into a particular MAT) and ignoring every other good aspect of a school. Schools have very little right of appeal in such cases. The whole thing is shambolic and honestly, if I had not seen these things with my own eyes I never would have believed it.

Parents need to become far more involved in education. Lobby MPs, bring attention to what is happening in schools. Many parents will not be in a position to do this and so those that can have to.

malaguena · 13/12/2017 12:39

(Former) secondary school teacher here, for all the reasons you described. My own children are in primary now and doing ok, but I will probably end up homeschooling for secondary, if not before. I have zero faith in the current system and governance. From my experience most teachers do care and we do our best to help, but the issues we encounter are way beyond our remit. We report kids to SS and ask for councelling for them, to no avail. Senior management is sometimes made out of people who are very promotion- focused and have no interest in children's welfare, as long as the school tops the league tables ( sorry for the massive generalisation here). There are so many issues and so little ressources, it just made me feel utterly helpless. For what is worth, I don't think the issue is a lack of money per se, academies seems to be syphonning money away just fine. It just doesn't go where it is needed.

secretBadSanta · 13/12/2017 12:41

As it is you just sound like a thinly-disguised political agitator, tbh.

Well said.

GrockleBocs · 13/12/2017 12:43

This government want to shrink the state. A policy of no new state schools in England means reliance on private companies, who can and do fail, to deliver a statutory provision. Who picks up the pieces when things go wrong? Who plans for the future? Who delivers a joined up provision of homes, jobs, schools and healthcare?

Zaphodsotherhead · 13/12/2017 12:44

A bit different out here in the sticks (with only one primary and secondary that all local kids go to). Very small primary, where kids were treated as individuals and 500 kids at secondary, which was excellent for my mid-range, fair achievers. All left with decent GCSE's.

I worked at another secondary in a town. Twelve years, during which there was a progressive culture of older, more experienced teachers leaving and being replaced by cheap-to-run NQTs, who then had insufficient support and guidance, and would leave after their three years were up, to be replaced by more NQTs. We had an NQT Department Head for a while...

SweetieBaby · 13/12/2017 12:46

ReinettePompadour

Sadly, this restriction on the number and type of exams that pupils are allowed to take is solely so that the school's progress 8 data is good. Schools are being forced into working for their own good, rather than for the benefit of the students.

I have recently had experience of a school that completely refused to play the numbers game. The Head insisted that they would do the absolute best for each student. If it was in their interest to take more exams they would. If they were better served by focusing on fewer subjects that's what happened. They hung on to teaching drama, music, art, when many other schools are cutting back because the Head was passionate about giving a broad education to all students.

Suffice to say the Head is no longer in post and the school has been taken over. Schools have to play the game now. They cannot fight against the system so we, as parents, have to.

20nil · 13/12/2017 12:48

I'm a parent of secondary and primary age children in the state sector and a school governor too. Our schools are great, but mainly because our teachers and support staff are heroic and go above and beyond every day. Also, parents who can chip in quite a lot to help with extras like trips and music and so on.

They, we and our children are being massively let down by under-funding, by academization and by lies about education funding and priorities.

As for the idea that properly funding state education bankrupts the economy! I don't think I've read a more stupid thing on mumsnet in more than 10 years. Good education is the bedrock of successful societies and economies. Do you really need to be told that?

CrochetBelle · 13/12/2017 12:52

Our kids are forced to go there

No, they aren't.

Nyx1 · 13/12/2017 12:55

Really interesting to see this post OP

in my 20s I had a vague sense of "wtf is going on with schools" and a strong feeling that increased time wasting was affecting children and teachers.

Then in my early 30s other friends DC began to go to school and it was confirmed, in my book.

Now for own DC I think home education is the way forward. Of course some friends are horrified by this idea and think DC miss a lot of important life experience at school. But I was actually thinking, would work life seem better if I hadn't been in a school environment for several years?

My impression is that teachers are doing a great job in horrible circumstances...which require them to meet targets that don't benefit anyone except consultants!

Janetjanetjanet · 13/12/2017 13:06

Reading all these threads about how bad the education system and the NHS is just makes me glad we live abroad.

NewBallsPlease00 · 13/12/2017 13:07

Rather than looking at the cuts I'm interested to know why there is more of a pinch- if it's because of schools at capacities developers need to find more, it's it's because of immigration we need to be clear on what policy looks like, if it's because of tax people need to wake up and realise that unless we have more people paying into tax the pit is simply spread more thinly. In my sons class of kids very few parents both work ft, because they can balance income with various top ups- I get spending time with your kids is precious, however if all that income to tax is now stopped then there is less in a bad available in system. See also corporate tax...

dancinfeet · 13/12/2017 13:07

Yes! I have just moved my Yr 9 child to a new school because the local one was very similar to what you describe OP - complete chaos. It takes her approx 1 hr 15 mins to get to school every day now, including a 25 min walk from home to the station, short train journey, and 15 min walk on other end. Completely worth it as her new school is smaller, much more disciplined and a much happier learning environment to be in. I am just grateful that a place became available there. Will be thoroughly glad when eldest leaves the sixth form at the local school (Yr 13, so moving schools was not really an option for her)

NewBallsPlease00 · 13/12/2017 13:07

Fwiw I live in an average part of the country and schools here are all v good, no expensive postcode lottery...

dancinfeet · 13/12/2017 13:08

sorry, I mean Yes I completely agree with OP, not Yes YABU!!

LaurieMarlow · 13/12/2017 13:12

YANBU. And this is one of the reasons why we moved away from the UK back home to Ireland. The primary school system in particular strikes me as much better here. It's a lot more relaxed and calm. Teaching is still perceived to be a good job, teachers stay in the system and for the most part are allowed to get on with just teaching their class.

Eatalot · 13/12/2017 13:27

People think private schools do better due to the parents and kids being smarter. The reality is the average class size is 11-12 kids. The MPs wont adress this as it would cost a fortune. Instead they blame teachers for not working hard enough supported by the press who do everything they can to make out teachers are lazy have endless holidays. The snow closures and comments will show you this. The public buy it and dont support the teachers iv seen plenty of threads on here.

The MPs also buy into the new teaching fadsgenerally invented by some US psychologist whos given a fancy name to their concept. Said psychologists sells books and websites and training materials and teachers spend valuable training time learning the bullshit. It only takes 5-6 hrs planning for an hour lesson and heads will be looking for it implemented in your next demeaning observation.

Zevitevitchofcrimas · 13/12/2017 13:33

I have a friend who has just started supply teaching in secondary, she is going into schools and regularly getting things thrown at her. The mind boggles.

I think of Steve m queen and his praise for the tough school he attended that saved his life, taught him self discipline and most importantly self respect.

I agree with those who are suicidal it's madness to force them to school, and those who are disruptive need specialist schools and support immediately.
Tough love.

Zevitevitchofcrimas · 13/12/2017 13:35

I'm interested in the cuts comments, have schools suddenly gone down hill? I don't think so, some round me have had bad reputation for years and years and years.