...to ask what happens when you die?

[TeaAndAMarmiteSandwhich]

... or more accurately, what you think happens?

I really really don't want to die (a good thing I guess! As I wasn't too bothered either way as a moody teen, but now I love life most of the time and want to hang around).

It's comforting to think there's a heaven, but I don't believe there is (and I'd probably get bored if I had to stay there for EVER). But when u die - is that it? Game over ? I'm not too keen on that idea either.

What do you think happens? and what would you like to think happens?

And yet when it comes to any sort of testing - including something as simple as putting a screen between the medium and punter, their amazing accuracy plummets.

If any medium ever took part in proper controlled tests and did any good that would be reason to at least consider it might be true. But they never, ever, EVER have. Wonder why?

Perhaps because they don't want to risk their income?

There's so much we don't know, and I wouldn't entirely dismiss the idea that there may be some who can occasionally communicate to someone who's passed. However I'm not convinced they're able to do it repeatedly because a crowd have lined up outside a grubby hall on a wet Tuesday to pay their twenty quids

Itchy putting a screen between the medium and the sitter will affect the accuracy of some mediums, depending on how they work. Some work by psychometry (as do I), where you need to be touching the person or an object (e.g. watch, a photo of the person they would like to contact).

It is an incredibly difficult business to get a clear message. It is like phoning Australia, on an old fashioned phone from the 20s, on a very crackly line, while having a stereo blasting in one ear, a toddler shouting in the other, while your mind is constantly wandering away from the conversation (well it is for me! Though in fairness, I am not a professional). Anything that would make that even more difficult, such as nerves caused by being under scrutiny, would, I think, be bound to be deleterious to results. And of course, there are the charlatans....

Ultimately, Itchy, it is a matter of what possibilities you are prepared to explore for yourself. Some are happier to plump for the certainty of not believing, which is of course fine, and I can certainly see the appeal of that.

Puzzled the vast majority of mediums in the country work for free in spiritualist churches.

the vast majority of mediums in the country work for free in spiritualist churches

Yes, so I understand; in fact it was just such a place I visited with a friend who was keen to show me how skilled and accurate the lady was

It was a pretty disturbing evening - and this one worked "for free" too, but was nevertheless quick with her spiel soliciting donations. Considering she claimed to have contacted eight or nine spirits (and all in a couple of hours!!) and that those favoured weren't alone in rushing to hand over money, it must have been a pretty lucrative visit for her

Reincarnation as a concept has been around for years. There are many books and websites. I got into it about 20 years ago when i found a book called 'How To Uncover Your Past Lives by Ted Andrews'. I bought it as I had a vague interest in reincarnation.

It completely changed the way I view the world, people, life and death making me less judgemental and more patient.

It presents some interesting theories about reincarnation.
Essentially, that some souls are older than others and we are on a long journey to wisdom.

I also did some of the exercises over a week which aid access to ''files' in the mind which are associated with past lives.

A week later I had some of the most vivid dreams of my whole life. One of which - if it did relate to a past life - explained my previously unexplainable and severe fear of the sea.

After a few of these dreams, I decided that maybe I shouldn't delve in too much and I stopped the exercises.

I know some people scoff at reincarnation but nobody knowseems what we are all her for. So, if someone finds an idea that gives them peace, purpose and means they treat people well and look to improve themselves then does it matter.

Shovingleopard - yes I’ve heard the “bad telephone line” analogy before.

It’s funny though that when it comes to new information the line is terrible (“I’m getting a B, or it could be a D, or an E, or they could be saying Tea - did they ever drink tea?”) - but when it comes to confirming info or repeating things back to the punter all of a sudden it’s as clear as a bell. Eg -

Medium: Did she have ankle problems?

Punter: No but she suffered with her knees. She had to stop going dancing.

Medium: Yes that’s right. She’s saying her knees are fine now and she can dance again.

Ticket stub - which is all very lovely but there is absolutely no evidence that souls actually exist, particularly as something that can somehow survive separate to the body/brain.

The mediums that work for “free” are more likely to be the ones who genuinely believe they have a gift that can help people, I grant you that.

They fall into the deluded camp rather than the out and out con artist camp.

“The certainty of not believing” - well, very little in life is absolutely certain. Of course I can’t say with 100% certainty that we don’t somehow survive death in some way.

However there is so far no reason at all to think we do.

In short you are reborn and reborn and reborn until you each enlightenment and then you are.reborn and there is no more suffering. I am a Buddhist.

And the evidence for that is.......?

I could say “When you die the chief fairy takes you to fairyland to meet the leprechauns and then everyone sings “Jesus wants me for a sunbeam”.

There’s just as much reason to believe that. Prove me wrong.

I'm not a medium, but I've often felt like communication with someone in spirit is like trying to speak someone underwater, in a foreign language, so I get SL's analogy. I've had to come to understand that communication is about more than words and speech, and I've had multiple overwhelming experiences that have confirmed to me that this person - and obviously by extension - everyone else who's passed - is still conscious and still exists, so I'm happy with that. I think I've had to let go of any (understandable though it is) mortal human need for any sort of "message" or anything. I mean, what else would I need to know? I know that xxxx is still around and okay, so that's enough for me.

I once said to xxxx, "You know xxxx, sometimes it feels like you're at the other end of a bridge from me, that's shrouded in mist. I can't see you, but only every now then I get a glimpse that lets me know that you're there". By glimpses I meant metaphorically, the experiences I've had.

Now, I didn't for one second intend that as a "give me a sign" plea or anything, it was just musing iyswim. In fact it temporarily slipped my mind that I'd said it. Then, a few days later, late one night, two really "in my face" incidents happened, to the extent that during the second incident I started to get slightly nervous for the first time in years. Bear in mind that by this point I'd had objects both fly across a room and drop down out of the air in front of me, so I wasn't easily fazed.

Anyway… it wasn't till a couple of days after that I recalled what I'd said about the bridge. Then I realised that I'd simply been given a particularly powerful confirmation that xxxx is very much still here. After that I lost any fear completely, and knew I had nothing to be afraid of.

Similarly, there was a time when I'd received some really upsetting information relating to xxxx from one of their close friends, I mean, really sickening, gut wrenching stuff, and I was really shaken to the core.
Now, usually if something as major as this had happened, there would be sort of sign from xxxx a few days later. I didn't demand or expect anything, but just past from past experience that's what would happen.

Anyway, after a few weeks, I spoke to xxxx, said I was getting a bit concerned, trying not to make it sound too much a plea. But a few days after that I got a "heads up". I didn't realise at first, and was starting to get confused and frustrated with what was happening, then I suddenly thought, hang on a minute… and said out loud, "Is that you doing that, xxxx? "
And immediately it stopped "Yay! She's got it at last! " thinks xxxx.

So anyway, I think the crux of this is that I feel a lot more calm and trusting. I know with 100% certainty that xxxx is still around, and I'm so grateful for that.

The cells in your body have expired and you cease to no longer be conscious. And then your remains decompose and you no longer exist but in memory.

My Father died a few years ago. He was a really brilliant man and had one of those amazing brains that could retain anything until he died at 77. He spent his life learning, travelling, experiencing. He had a pretty awesome life until he got cancer.
The thing that terrifies me about death, and his death, is that you spend your whole life building up your cache - experiences, emotions, memories etc and then when you die, it means nothing. Even when it is, seemingly, so important to say "I love you", "I'm sorry" or "thank-you" to someone at the end of their life; it means nothing as it only occurs in that moment for the person. Even when you say "live life to the fullest and get all of life' experiences in" , it means nothing as the minute you die, there is no memory.
Quite scary really. Not the death but the thought that your hard drive is wiped after you have done all that work.

I've seen programmes on TV about children who remember past lives, they go into much detail and describe places and people who were in their lives a long time ago. I don't see how it can't seem very feasible. I think it's wise to have a very open mind.

It's all very well to demand proof, but what kind of proof, people talk of their individual experiences, why not accept what they say instead of trying to discount them. It's far easier to believe than not to, what harm can it do anyway.

cleo all those things you describe, all those emotions, experiences etc is what reaffirms my faith. I just know that that is not all for nothing. I often think the same of my dear mum, so vital and full of life and love, i just know it wasn't all for nothing. It's hard to explain how i feel i just know, i've tried to a few times with my dh who's a bit sceptical, but those emotions and experiences from your father, it's that that tells me we don't die, the soul lives on.

Life here on earth is fleeting, but we are here for a reason, i really dont believe it can all be for nothing.

Reincarnation as a concept has been around for years

Millennia, actually Fascinating site here:

www.deathreference.com/Py-Se/Reincarnation.html

Loved reading everyone’s different views, although quite surprised at how many believe that everything stops, that that’s just it!

I believe in reincarnation , my mum tells me that I vividly told her and described “ my life before” I also have memories more like snippets of a ten second clip , of a girl about 8 years of age. She doesn’t look like me , but I know that she is!

I have three children , and my middle child from the age of 3 would go into great detail of her “ other life “ with such accuracy and so matter of fact, Such as the place that she lived , what she wore, what her house was like.She wouldn’t have known at that age, nor had she ever visited this country before but her account was spot on!.She has no memory of this any more!

My husband is a non believer, he thinks when you die that that is it but also can’t explain our daughters story of events and does agree that there is no way she would know details like she did .

For these reasons I don’t fear death, what worries me is leaving loved ones behind.
I’ve only lost 3 close family members in my life, with one very recently, but did have a vision of my sister in law who I was very close with.
I was thinking about her a lot leading up to it and one day whilst busily tidying the house I saw her vision out the corner of my eye, it scared the crap out of me, the weird thing about it was the vision was of her in her early teens ( she died late thirties of cancer) and i’ve only seen photos of her at this age. but know for sure it was her and it was really comforting as she’d had a terrible fight with cancer but in this “vision “ she was young and well .

I know people won’t believe me and that’s fine, they have no reason too.I know myself what I’ve seen and feel no need to have people accept what I’ve seen, what my daughter has said.
But there’s so much we don’t yet understand .. is it such a mad theory that there is more after death? Why does everythink have to be so final ?

As a family we’ve always looked into all different religions and beliefs and I’ve always said to my children that it’s a topic that’s individual to them, no one is right or wrong you just have to take the parts that mean something , or resonate with you and not pass judgement on people who may feel differently as that’s there own feelings.

There are two neuroscientists who I’ve forgotten the names of but their work basically says the information inside the tubules of your brain can ot just disappear. It cannot die and therefore must go somewhere.

Penrose and Hameroff?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_mind#Penrose_and_Hameroff

The thing that terrifies me about death, and his death, is that you spend your whole life building up your cache - experiences, emotions, memories etc and then when you die, it means nothing

cleo perhaps we need to learn to be more aware of what's happening right now, rather than being preoccupied with the future or worrying about past events.
I did a brilliant Mindfulness course a while ago, was surprised at how difficult it was to really concentrate on the here and now. Once I got the hang of it was amazed at how much calmer and happier I felt.
As John Lennon said "Life is what happens when you're busy making other plans".

My husband is a non believer, he thinks when you die that that is it but also can’t explain our daughters story of events and does agree that there is no way she would know details like she did .

This is what gets me, my DH is the same. Certain things have happened within our family, nothing huge, just little events but so unexplainable and which to me points to a life beyond, he'll think of umpteen ridiculous explanations rather than just accept something for what it is. It's like he doesn't want to believe there's anything.

Hopefully if it’s reincarnation we get a choice whether to come back or not!

I think more likely that we are in heaven praying for our loved ones. I like that idea more.

I hope that there isn’t hell. I’d rather there was nothing after death than an eternity in hell.

What about what this neuro surgeon

I also wonder whether children’s imaginary friends are often ghosts.