Ask about vegetarianisim and veganisim

[ginorwine]

Ok so I hate the way a great deal of meat gets on our plates - gross .
Was a veggie for 20 years but then decided to eat high welfare meat - this was on the basis that I felt being a veggie was sort of running away from issues / avoiding them as well as refusing to participate in meat producing industry were I could ( aware still had cheeses etc so not entirely )
I chose to eat high welfare meat as I wanted to use my consumer power to buy a good life for the animal and use consumer power to ' vote ' for this
As opposed to being invisible to the meat industry iyswim
In this way I felt it was contributing in a small way to saying the industry needs to be kinder and for animals to have less miserable exustsnce
However I just can't eat meat anymore
But I feel that I'm avoiding the issue almost
I wonder if anyone can explain to me in what ways veggie or vegan help animals by being not meat eaters - I'm
Hoping to address this - I can't be an active activist but would be willing to donate or support relevant campaigns .
Thanks - felt amibu to decide to be veggie / vegan when I actively want animals to have a better life and death

‘Give it a fucking rest’

Why the hostility?

Touching on some uncomfortable truths perhaps.

Chickens aren’t mammals

Therefore they can be treated differently to manmals? Is it ok to take away their chicks and rear them for meat then because they are mere birds?

I don’t think you’re intelligent enough to comprehend the argument.

Are you talking to yourself again?

You are deluded.

Chickens weren’t being referred to in the context of having their chicks removed.

Why the hostility?

what hostility?

Insults coming thick and fast. Deluded now?

Nice.

HNRTFT but a chicken has a natural life of 5-6 years. Farmed chickens live 6 weeks. Basically they don't get a chance of much of a life, so by not eating them you reduce the demand for them. I'm not a vegan, but DH is. I've read a lot about it. I find it difficult to give up chicken so tend to buy free range.

Well you are. And you can't follow your own argument.

Are you seriously saying the only reason humans are above animals is tool use and language?
That is what you said, and if you think that, you are deluded.

You obviously fail to understand why humans have an evolutionary advantage.

Why do you think humans have achieved these things?

OK I think we all agree that recent studies of animal behaviour have argued that eg dolphins, whales and chimpanzees have far more sophisticated powers of communication than was previously thought; also that many creatures (some birds, though not chickens as far as I know, octopuses) use tools and learn from each other.
We might note in passing that scientists routinely read animal communities via anthropomorphic and/or utopian agenda.
But all this aside, I don’t think any of us would disagree that animals are more different from us than they are similar, most notably in terms of technology, language and creativity. As far as I know, we are the only species to have developed religion or representative art.

You do know that, up until a relatively few years ago, surgeons used to perform surgery on babies without anaesthetic because they believed that they couldn’t feel pain? They were unable to express their distress in the form of language and were thought to have brains that didn’t detect pain.

some reasons why humans evolved

The use of tools and language being among the reasons.

You obviously fail to understand why humans have an evolutionary advantage

I understand it perfectly. You, on the other hand, not a bean do you have.

The use of tools and language being among the reasons

AMONG the reasons? You said the ONLY reasons. Have you realised now you were very very very wrong on that?

If I have understood that article correctly (and I realise I am sticking my head above the parapet in laying claim to any cognitive function) it actually discredits all the cited theories.

yeah, I wasn't going to mention that the article says the opposite of what Barrow thinks it does, but it figures.

*I don't forget that the almond milk you sub with is causing huge eco damage, like quinoa and loads of vegan foods.
Cutting our dairy is better for the cows but its terrible for the planet, and we wouldn't be able to support the current population on a healthy vegan diet without wrecking the planet entirely. *

the effects of meat and dairy on antibiotic resistance, energy consumption, water wastage is FAR HIGHER than ANY vegan food.

Scientific papers available if you would like to read them

Cognitive dissonance is high from meat eaters.

Killing animals in slaughterhouses cannot be justified morally.

If you want to eat meat fine - but don't delude yourselves that it's helping the environment or ethical in any way.

What about hunting then, Josh?

what about hunting?

I love some tasty dead animal. And tasty vegetables.

We are all planet-clutter when it comes to it. The most ethical thing is not to reproduce.

Hunting v slaughterhouse. Any ethical difference in your book?

Joshhommeswife- Is using a laptop ethical? Or reading a book?

We all use animals to some extent. You just choose the level you are comfortable with.

Not eating meat makes me feel better about myself as I'm living compassionately and being true to my values and what I believe.

An added bonus is It also makes me look and feel healthier and I have much more energy.

No difference at all. Both killing for pleasure - for nice food or a sport.

A level you're comfortable with is entirely the point of cognitive dissonance.

What's the point you're trying to make with the laptop and book argument? Am I eating or using an animal's corpse to do that?

I live in a way that contributes very little DIRECT income to an industry which belittles and trivializes animals lives.

Humans don't need meat to survive. Eating meat is selfish and cruel.

I will change no one's opinion here so carry on arguing how ethical your choices are. You won't change