Ask about vegetarianisim and veganisim

[ginorwine]

Ok so I hate the way a great deal of meat gets on our plates - gross .
Was a veggie for 20 years but then decided to eat high welfare meat - this was on the basis that I felt being a veggie was sort of running away from issues / avoiding them as well as refusing to participate in meat producing industry were I could ( aware still had cheeses etc so not entirely )
I chose to eat high welfare meat as I wanted to use my consumer power to buy a good life for the animal and use consumer power to ' vote ' for this
As opposed to being invisible to the meat industry iyswim
In this way I felt it was contributing in a small way to saying the industry needs to be kinder and for animals to have less miserable exustsnce
However I just can't eat meat anymore
But I feel that I'm avoiding the issue almost
I wonder if anyone can explain to me in what ways veggie or vegan help animals by being not meat eaters - I'm
Hoping to address this - I can't be an active activist but would be willing to donate or support relevant campaigns .
Thanks - felt amibu to decide to be veggie / vegan when I actively want animals to have a better life and death

Barrowinfurness what do you suggest doing with all the millions of cows and sheep then if we stop farming them? Shoot the lot en masse? Surely far more terrifying than being sent one at a time down a chute and being quietly stunned?

Their numbers would gradually diminish as demand for meat declines.

Fat, protein and calcium can come from foods other than milk.

@unemfuckingployable they don't bellow for weeks, maybe a few hours if that. They are generally more interested in being milked and fed. They are animals, not humans. Yes, they connect with their calves and have cow 'friends' but they don't have the same capability for emotions that humans do.

Providing their diet is right and they are milked properly most infections can be avoided. I do feel for them when they've had a difficult calving and they're being taken to the milking parlour but is it so different from a woman having to go to work after giving birth?

There are always bad farmers and abuse, but that goes on in nursing, schools and churches. Should we ban all walks of life because some people are cruel and bad?

those videos where the cows are crying for weeks after because their calves have been ripped away from them not long after birth...but just long enough to bond

do you think maybe you are seriously anthropomorphising the cows, just a bit?

@curry, so many videos of abuse, bad practice etc are either manufactured or short clips are taken out of context and the real reasons hidden. Not all, there are some genuine cases of malpractice and cruelty but thankfully in the UK they are not all that common.

The arrogance of humans in believing that animals are lesser creatures and are unable to experience emotions and drives. Dismissing the recognition that animals are sentient life forms with emotions as anthropomorphism is supremely arrogant.

But curry we’ve already been told that we live, literally, in an anthropomorphic world where all animals are people

We all choose the line we are comfortable with.

All humans use animal products, whether that is eating and wearing them and not caring or thinking about where it comes from.

To very strict vegans just using laptops, mobiles, reading books, having photographs etc at the other end of the scale.

You can try to explain where you draw your line to people and why but you can't make them change where there line is.

Have a look at the charity Compassion in World Farming.

The arrogance of humans in believing that animals are lesser creatures and are unable to experience emotions and drives. Dismissing the recognition that animals are sentient life forms with emotions as anthropomorphism is supremely arrogant

yeah, I think you missed the point there. Animals don't experience emotions and drives in the way humans do. We know that. Cows do not name their calves and sing lullabies and grieve for weeks and weeks over their loss.
That's not arrogance, that's science.

You can try to explain where you draw your line to people and why but you can't make them change where there line is

Everyone's choices are their own, but what they cannot claim is "I live a cruelty free life". You don't, it isn't possible.

Well put Blacktea. I have issue with people who will eat meat they buy shrink wrapped in the supermarket (not caring how it was farmed) but when faced with the fact that it was once a living thing, 'Oooh I couldn't eat a fluffy little lamb'. Yet continue to buy supermarket meat.

I honestly don't care whether people choose to be meat eaters, vegetarians or vegans, I dislike the hypocrisy and superiority that seems to come with it. If you don't want anything to do with animal products then you need to examine everything you wear and use in your everyday life. Makeup, shoes, clothing and plastics often contain animal derivatives, yet many diet-based vegans don't take that into account as it's not convenient.

Curry, I do think there are different levels of cruelty though. There is a kind of responsible husbandry which actively works to minimise the animals’ suffering.

Cows don’t have human language and abilities so it’s fine to dismiss their emotional and cognitive functioning?

What about whales? Science has demonstrated that a whale’s brain has more connections in their emotional centres than a humans. But they can’t drive a car so presumably it’s okay to dismiss them?

Bovine sentience study

Cows don’t have human language and abilities so it’s fine to dismiss their emotional and cognitive functioning?

Who mentioned human language and abilities? They don't have the type of emotional and cognitive funcitoning that we have. Surely you know this?
Who said that meant they didn't matter? Not I. Don't make stupid assumptions.

Campaigns are a waste of time.

Do your bit by minimising food waste and food miles.

Our evolutionary advantage comes from our physical ability to use tools and our language abilities. These are the only reasons why humans have grown to dominate the planet and express an advantage over other species.

Humans have little idea of what is going on in the minds of animals and other mammals in particular. Science is beginning to uncover some truths, but has a long way to go.

Our evolutionary advantage comes from our physical ability to use tools and our language abilities. These are the only reasons why humans have grown to dominate the planet and express an advantage over other species

Nothing at all to do with our immensely higher intelligence at all then? Chickens could have had the Enlightenment too if only they have opposable thumbs.

Give it a fucking rest.

Well scatterbrainedlass as I said I haven’t cut out meat or eggs at the moment, just dairy.

I had a look online, took a couple of books out of the library etc. to see where to get the calcium, fats etc.

Turns out we already eat everything we needed anyway. Plenty of a variety of vegetables, nuts, seeds, fruit etc.

We haven’t had to change anything really.

Barrow, thanks for the link. Fascinating read.

Chickens aren’t mammals.

Fair enough missmustbeamug, and I say this sincerely, if it works for you and your family and you are happy with it, then great. I personally enjoy dairy and don't have an issue with it, but as I said at the beginning, each to their own. If you are healthy and feel that you are morally satisfied then that is all that matters.

I didn't say they were. Are you having trouble concentrating?