Ask about vegetarianisim and veganisim

[ginorwine]

Ok so I hate the way a great deal of meat gets on our plates - gross .
Was a veggie for 20 years but then decided to eat high welfare meat - this was on the basis that I felt being a veggie was sort of running away from issues / avoiding them as well as refusing to participate in meat producing industry were I could ( aware still had cheeses etc so not entirely )
I chose to eat high welfare meat as I wanted to use my consumer power to buy a good life for the animal and use consumer power to ' vote ' for this
As opposed to being invisible to the meat industry iyswim
In this way I felt it was contributing in a small way to saying the industry needs to be kinder and for animals to have less miserable exustsnce
However I just can't eat meat anymore
But I feel that I'm avoiding the issue almost
I wonder if anyone can explain to me in what ways veggie or vegan help animals by being not meat eaters - I'm
Hoping to address this - I can't be an active activist but would be willing to donate or support relevant campaigns .
Thanks - felt amibu to decide to be veggie / vegan when I actively want animals to have a better life and death

Unfortunately I have no control over how livestock are slaughtered. Obviously I would prefer it to be as humane and stress free as possible. The only thing which I can and do control is ensuring I only buy meat from animals which have lived as happy a life as possible.

Why don't you give Veganuary a try? A whole month vegan? See how it makes you feel, do you feel better or do you miss meat and dairy? See it as a fun challenge to yourself can you make it through?

PS the whole we need to keep eating sheep, cows and pigs or they'll die out is utter nonsense. The world will never turn vegan overnight, if demand falls less animals would be bred.

PS the whole we need to keep eating sheep, cows and pigs or they'll die out is utter nonsense. The world will never turn vegan overnight, if demand falls less animals would be bred

It was said they would die out if we ALL turned vegan. You have to understand the premise before you can say its nonsense. You contradicted yourself

@Bobbinsandthread actually yes. And they would still be farmed for wool anyway. Not to mention all the wild herds running around

I don't think there's much point in being vegetarian for 'ethical' reasons when the dairy industry is just as cruel, if not worse, than the meat industry.

Similar with 'pescetarian'—fishing is in many ways the least ethical 'flesh' food ,as far many more fish need to be killed than mammals to produce an equivalent amount of food (and then there's all the fish and other marine animals that are killed but not eaten as a by-product of net fishing).

If everyone ate less meat/fish and purchased only high-welfare animal-based products that would be a huge step forward.

There are lots of nice dairy alternatives now that make veganism a little easier to manage

You think it's better for animal welfare to eat them than to be vegetarian?! Whut?

@Bobbinsandthread actually yes. And they would still be farmed for wool anyway. Not to mention all the wild herds running around

I keep coming across this. People seeming to think that if everyone stopped eating meat the animals will all live happily in the wild. It’s really weird.

Watch some of documentaries on netflix. Higher welfare meat is a bigger drain on the environment, and if your argument is an environmental one, then the two aren't compatible. If your argument is a moral one, then, as others have pointed out, you are still contributing to the killing of animals that you decide taste good. If your argument is a health one, scientific journals like PLOS ONE as well the WHO, show vegans have 35% less chance of developing cancers like breast and ovarian and heart disease (the list is huge but some headlines there). Bacon and other red meat is listed as dangerous as cigarettes by the WHO.

I dont see any good reasons to eat meat other than we have been bought up to think it tastes good. We sign petitions to save dolphins, whales and dogs in places like Japan and Korea while sending a selection of farm animals to be slaughtered when we have plenty of alternatives. What's the difference between eating a dog or a pig, apart from historic and societal influences? Cake and chocolate taste good but we limit them for our health, we'd all agree less of those the better for health overall.

There are so many vegan options now that it's never been as easy to opt out of a cruelty free life. I tried being vegan for a month in Aug 2016 and found myself sleeping better, skin was clear, felt morally superior instantly (joke!) and it started with reflecting on the hypocrisy of buying free range organic meat which the planet can't sustain (given the land and water required to raise them) and slaughtering them for a good source. They aren't food, though the majority of us have been raised to think they are.

We don't think all the animals would live free in the wild. They would stop being bred in the same numbers so the majority not exist in the first place. We don't eat seagulls and they don't die out. We don't eat loads of flippin things that exist without being farmed.

If the choice was a dramatically reduced chicken population or a hefty chicken population that is (a) bred only to kill and eat and (b) lives it's short life (about 16 weeks) in horrendously cramped, unhealthy environment with no sunlight, better that chicken had never been bred in the first place.

I come across milk drinkers who say that we have to milk cows otherwise they'd explode. Flipping numpties. The calf would drink the milk, and the cow would atop producing milk when the calf didn't need it. They only need milking because we keep them constantly pregnant with artificial insemination and then kill the male calfs and steal the milk intended for their offspring.

The dairy industry is particularly cruel. These cows are just milk machines. Their calves are removed from them soon after birth which causes distress to both cow and calf. The cows bellow for their offspring and show signs of distress for weeks afterwards.

Their milk is full of their stress hormones and they suffer painful infections in their udders. After a few years - and pregnancies - they’re sent for slaughter and made into pet food or pie meat.

We don't think all the animals would live free in the wild. They would stop being bred in the same numbers so the majority not exist in the first place. We don't eat seagulls and they don't die out. We don't eat loads of flippin things that exist without being farmed

Where do you think the wild habitat for the cows will be then? I don't think you understand the difference between seagulls and pigs.

Getting the law changed on cctv in slaughterhouses was a big win last year. It comes in to effect in the spring.

I encourage people to eat less meat. Even just the meat free Mondays is reducing meat consumption.

Where do you think the wild habitat for the cows will be then?

There is actually only one place in Europe where there are wild cattle: Chillingham Castle in Northumberland. The cattle are extremely dangerous and you have to be taken to see them (at a distance) by a guide.

"Where do you think the wild habitat for the cows will be then?"

Did you read what I wrote? I specifically said they wouldn't live in the wild

Maybe I am missing something

I chose to eat high welfare meat as I wanted to use my consumer power to buy a good life for the animal and use consumer power to ' vote ' for this

You stopped being vegetarian so you could protest at the killing of animals

Sorry I haven't a clue what you are on about.

You implied they will still exist without being farmed. So where would that be then, if not on farms and not in the wild?

In this country farms are highly regulated. Buy British, but free range buy well looked after meat. Shops like Waitrose and Aldi use very high quality meat from responsibility sourced farms.

I think if you want to be vegan that's up to you, but having thought about and discussed the issue at length with a fairly large number of people (there's a reason why it comes up but it's not necessary for me to go into it) I find the arguments for it particularly poor.

The poster who mentioned that various species would pretty much go extinct if everyone turned vegan is bang on, absolutely correct. The sheep and cows etc that vegans enjoy seeing just wouldn't be there if we didn't want something from them.

What about animals that die of natural causes (because animals do die, yes?) - can we eat those? If not, why not? I'm fully on board with the ethical treatment of animals, farmed or otherwise and regs in the UK are pretty darn tight.

We also mustn't overlook the fact that we live in the monumentally privileged West, where a vegan diet is not only possible but fairly readily available. If we were living as little as a few hundred years ago, or in many parts of the world even today we'd have little choice in the matter, meat would definitely be on the proverbial menu.

I wonder how many vegans have ever walked behind a plough or a combine and seen the utter carnage they cause. Millions of worms die every year so vegans can have their pea and sweetcorn smoothies.

I also find veganism to be idealistic. Just because you walk right on by the big juicy ribeye in the supermarket doesn't change a thing. The person behind you is going to buy it and eat it and that's the way it'll likely always be. The only way for veganism to really hit hard in the meat/dairy industries is if it gains massive traction and that doesn't seem likely for all manner of reasons (people want the products, a lot of people just don't give a shit about the subject etc)

Lions are pretty rare nowadays. If everyone heads to McDonalds and starts demanding a big old McSimba burger you watch the lion population explode. Might be a sad way to think about it, but it's still true.

I don't forget that the almond milk you sub with is causing huge eco damage, like quinoa and loads of vegan foods.
Cutting our dairy is better for the cows but its terrible for the planet, and we wouldn't be able to support the current population on a healthy vegan diet without wrecking the planet entirely.
Vegans like to talk about moral choices but only the ones that make them look good.

The premise of vsgibsm is that it is wrong for people to breed, use and slaighter animals for our own gain. The aim is to eliminate exploitative animal ownership. The (hypocritical) aim of vegetarianism is to prevent animals being killed (they are still killed anyway to make dairy and egg products) because its wrong to kill them end of. I think that your way is best but then again I see nothing wrong in either owning or killing animals, I just don't their lives have much value one way or another-they are born, their lives are short and brutish and then they die. I do however agree with you that, if we do choose to use their lives for our benefit it must be done in a way that doesn't cause them any pain. What you can do is to make ethical consumer choices when sourcing eggs and dairy as well as other animal products like leather. You don't have to buy meat to support ethical business.

I think people should cut down on eating red meat. But I don't like chicken because I so disapprove of the methods used to rear chickens that it has put me off. Having a healthy diet is the main thing I suppose.

Almond milk is easily avoided.

Many people throughout the world are vegan through necessity and it doesn’t destroy their environment the way western farming methods do.

As for extinction. These farmed animals are unnatural and shouldn’t exist in the first place. I’d be glad to see sheep and cow free fields if it meant that fewer animals were suffering. You can’t eat farm animals that have died of natural causes due to disease.

Whatever happens during their life they don't have a good death, they know where they are going and it isn't pleasant for them.

However, having a better life is preferable to suffering until they are killed.

I don't eat meat. I also try to avoid palm oil because that affects animals too, by the loss of their habitat and being beaten to death for daring to live in it.

Almond milk is easily avoided

That is just one example out of countless others. A vegan lifestyle is less sustainable than most others, studies have shown.