Grenfell ex-residents should get a 3-bed house with a garden if that's what they want

[pingodolcepo]

Daily mail outrage that some of the residents are asking for a 3-bed house with a garden. But honestly, they have been through a living hell that was caused by someone else's very bad choices.

There are plenty of people in London that have a 3 bed council house, why can't these people that have dealt with horrors get one also?

I know someone that got a council house in Highgate in the 80s, was a cabbie with a good wage, bought it when offered and sold it a few years ago for over a million and now lives in a fab place with loads of land and a pool in the south of France. If plenty of normal people got houses why can't these poor residents get one? They won't ever be able to afford to buy it due to the high cost of london houses now.

Battle, just saying that the situation can't be politicised - it is political.

Battle, just saying that the situation can't be politicised - it is political.

Ah? I can't be bothered to repeat all my many posts on the thread if you can't be bothered to read them. Very tedious.

Yes, (as I said way up thread) it's governance and it's hugely important and it should be scrutinised.

But that doesn't mean that other interest groups don't have other political agendas or that they aren't using the survivors by piggy backing on the tragedy.

It's all very complex. Just because LBKC are the obvious villains of the piece, it doesn't make this a white hat/black hat situation. There's lots going on.

I seem to recall threads here where posters insisted council tenants didn't want sprinklers fitted but were forced to do so, so sprinklers were a Bad Thing.

Grenfell was full of owners (leaseholders) those people bought their flats in the same way you did. What helping hand did they get?

Er, they would have exercised the "Right to Buy" discount which in London can be £100k +. I doubt that the person who sold Franklin her the property gave her a whopping "right to buy" discount, it simply doesn't exist for private rentals. You do know that a private tenant who wants to buy a property off their landlord is not going to be given a huge discount on the property even if they have lived in it and paid market rate rent for a number of years? They have to pay the market rate. No special allowances for them.

It was before the fire happened though, so things will be completely different now.

makeourfuture If the decisions to not install sprinkler systems and to use that particular cladding were made either because of lack of funding, or unwillingness to spend on social housing, then that is a political issue. It absolutely is.

What if the decision to not install sprinkler systems was because, as reported, residents said they didn't want them? What if they were not installed because the residents didn't want any more disruption? What if they were not installed because certain social housing residents let them off all the time deliberately and disturb the rest by regular evacuations and the subsequent water damage? What if the cladding used conformed to all building regs and standards, as used on thousands of private towers throughout the world?

If the above is found, according to you Grenfell is not a political issue, correct?

And I know this isn't the point at all, but where's Lily Allen in all this? Oddly enough I haven't seen her around for a while, swivelling her goggle eyes to catch the nearest lens ...

She's busy evicting private tenants from their home her rental property. A proper champagne socialist.

If the above is found, according to you Grenfell is not a political issue, correct?

I would think that less of a political argument could be made. I would be concerned about whether resident wishes regarding sprinkler systems would remove governmental responsibility however.

Lily Allen

Lily Allen has no real impact on any of this. I would assume she was emotionally affected at the time and felt the need to express herself. Many felt the same.

Franklin77 - the social housing tenants would not of had a say in any sprinklers being fitted,
The owners/leaseholders would have,
If you you had ever lived in a council flat (which you haven’t) you would know this,
Why do people keep commenting on subjects they obviously know nothing about?

I had to google that, mothertruck, but it seems you're right

No doubt here are two sides to the story, but at least now Lily's tenants have gone she'll be able to help the refugees she promised to help

Applebee7 Franklin77 - the social housing tenants would not of had a say in any sprinklers being

Hang on. The residents committee and various Grenfell action groups have consistently claimed their fears about safety which included the absence of sprinklers were ignored, and that they asked for sprinklers. They have protested and publicly condemned the council for not listening to them and not installing the sprinklers they said were needed.

Now you say they would not have had any say in them being fitted. So you agree then, the Grenfell action group etc. protestors are wrong, the council did not ignore them then as, as you put it, the tenants would not have had any say anyway?

Here is the post.

*HelenaDove Thu 11-May-17 23:56:13
Just seen an idea being mooted about sprinkler systems possibly being installed in HA homes. I wonder if this is connected somehow.

If these go off by accident and damage tenants property i can see the HA and the company who may install them passing the buck for liability back and forth to each other. Already happens with some of the heating contractors some of them use.

NO CHANCE!
Add message | Report | Message poster*

being intentionally silly now 😀

Lily Allen has no real impact on any of this. I would assume she was emotionally affected at the time and felt the need to express herself. Many felt the same

Lily Allen has no real impact on any of this. I would assume she was emotionally affected at the time and felt the need to express herself. make sure she was still in the public eye because she's shit at selling records. Many felt the same

Fixed that for you

The council tenants wouldn’t of had a say & DIDNT have a say,
Also on that point if the council had agreed the council tenants & the leaseholders would of payed for this in the follow years service charge

Franklin77 - You keep firing questions at people on this thread when as you have admitted yourself your only knowledge of the subject is that years ago you tried to get a council flat (don’t know why because you hate council tenants)
& you were turned down because of the IMMIGRANTS.
I have never heard such bigoted Bullshit 😬

Applebee7 You keep writing random posts which have no basis and your focus on nearly every post is to insult other posters. I have a lot of knowledge in this area actually, but you go ahead an think that it's all based on one phone call.

Applebee7 instead of insulting posters on here and willfully disregarding what people write, why don't you reply and engage properly with some real argument or evidence if you disagree with anything.

I don’t see how I’ve insulted anyone that hasn’t been offensive to other posters

Just because you don’t understand how the system works you don’t have to make up lies

Anyway your determination to prove that council tenants are scum is getting very boring

I’m out

mother as I said previously, right to buy hasn't been exercised in K&C for decades- in fact it's rare in any high value area. I haven't seen more than 10 in the last 15 years.

£100k isn't a usual discount but even if it was, it doesn't help when the flat costs £900k.

The flats owned by leaseholders in Grenfell have been sold and bought many times since they were bought under RTB.

Now you say they would not have had any say in them being fitted. So you agree then, the Grenfell action group etc. protestors are wrong, the council did not ignore them then as, as you put it, the tenants would not have had any say anyway?

I am not sure about your argument here.

If, for instance, and this is hypothetical, it were found that a real danger exists if the installation of some system was withheld. And it was determined that there were no public policy reasons not to install it, objections could be taken into consideration, but I am not sure if that would remove the duty of care (loosely used).

I just don't get how the poster above was able to afford to have 3 children whilst working on minimum wage and having a 4 bedroom house in central London.

I had to leave London to afford to raise 1 child whildt busting a gut on a 60 hour per week job. I now earn £40k but am skint after bills.

Sprinklers are not fitted because:

-It's not a Legal requirement (I think people forget that not even fire alarms are in the communal areas)

-If they were to malfunction they would damage property

-Residents don't like disruption and it's not necessarily about "say"- I worked on a block where the tenants continuously vandalised a communal alarm system they didn't want (it was eventually removed)

• leaseholders and residents will have to pay for the ongoing maintenance of them through their service charges and may protest this too.

But ultimately? If it were a legal requirement it would be done.

make sure she was still in the public eye because she's shit at selling records.

I have no idea really what motivated Lilly. I am really finding it hard to picture her seeing the images on the TV and saying, "Some may call this a disaster, I am seeing an opportunity to sell a few downloads!"

Applebee7 Just because you don’t understand how the system works you don’t have to make up lies I do know how it works. You keep lying and pretending I don't. You keep pretending you're the only one here who does know.

Anyway your determination to prove that council tenants are scum is getting very boring Your determination to believe that anybody who questions the moving of heaven and earth for Grenfell and the unfairness of social housing on the rest of us, is incredibly boring. Why can't you accept that others have opinions about an unfair system without believing that "council tenants are scum". They're your words and feelings, not mine.

I’m out You created another username just for this thread and as soon as you're challenged you're out (from using that username...).