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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To pull out because of programme at Christmas concert

331 replies

Whyamistillawake · 10/12/2017 17:28

I've been going to a choir since September, most of which has been practising for the Christmas concert this week.

We've just had the final rehearsal in which they've introduced a duet which us two people (not including me) singing 'Baby it's cold outside'.

Am I overreacting to pull out? At the moment I don't see how I can sit there through it.

OP posts:
BishBoshBashBop · 11/12/2017 07:45

The issue is none of us know what intention the song was written with.

You seem to think you do.

It is also cowardly to pull out without saying why. If you are so sure you are right, then have the courage of your convictions.

Also please don't use the term 'rapey'. As someone who has been seriously sexually assaulted, it's offensive.

SoupDragon · 11/12/2017 07:50

She tastes it, says 'what's in this drink', makes a face and puts it to one side. How is that a joke about her pretending she's getting drunk from it (when there's no alcohol really). If that was what was going on she'd have downed it!

It's the drink she was drinking at the start of the clip so she knows exactly what it is' what it tastes like and what it smells like. She doesn't drink it at all the second time.

None of the reasons she gives are "I don't want to stay" they are all about what others will think and she decides to stay three times.

LizzieSiddal · 11/12/2017 07:53

For goodness sake, it’s not just that “she doesn’t like a song” she probably “doesn’t like” The Birdy Song, but she wouldn’t pull out if they were singing that because it doesn’t remind her of horrible sexual encounters.

I cannot believe some of the replies on here!

I cannot listen to a certain song as it was played at my DD’s best friend’s funeral.
If I withdrew from singing it at a choir would that make me pathetic too?!

Gran22 · 11/12/2017 08:00

Ive heard this song many times, and see nothing sleazy in it. A couple who obviously fancy one another, she's pretending she doesn't want to stay for reasons that were appropriate for the culture of the time.

BarbarianMum · 11/12/2017 08:01

I was brought up to think this is how wooing should be. Blush A time when nice girls did but shouldn't be too eager- and yes, worried about what people would think. All kinds of fucked up but it was a pretty normal attitude once.

TheFirstMrsDV · 11/12/2017 08:07

I don't think anyone cared about this song until the Tom Jones Carys Matthews version.
Her breathy, little girl delivery and him being a pensioner did give it a creepy edge.

But previously it was two adults with no obvious power imbalance working out if they were going to risk it and have a shag.

Original poster
Whyamistillawake · 11/12/2017 08:19

I can't see where I have used the term 'rapey' but if I have done I apologise. I agree it's an abhorrent term.

Im singing plenty of songs I don't like - you can't like everything you sing. This one I find upsetting and offensive. I'm sure there are other songs I would also find this but I've never felt the need to pull out of a performance before.

OP posts:
ReanimatedSGB · 11/12/2017 08:30

If you do drop out, you're probably out of the choir for good. Because the other members won't want to have to decide whether or not you will be offended every time they schedule a concert. You'll have demonstrated that you are unreliable and self-righteous, and convinced no one that your interpretation of the song means it should never be sung.

BarbarianMum · 11/12/2017 08:52

Of course she doesn't have to leave the choir, she can just pretend she has a cold that night Hmm It's a choir - no offence to the OP but I'm sure they'll manage without her for once.

derxa · 11/12/2017 09:05

It is rude and cowardly to just not turn up. Yes. People have been practicing for months and you pull this stunt.
I hate this song with a passion but not because of the lyrics. It sets my teeth on edge.

Pumperthepumper · 11/12/2017 09:08

You'll have demonstrated that you are unreliable and self-righteous, and convinced no one that your interpretation of the song means it should never be sung.

How could you possibly know that no one will be convinced? There could well be other people in the choir who feel exactly the same way, it’s not exactly news that the song is considered controversial. And even if there’s only a handful of women in the group, chances are a few of them will have experience with lack of consent and coercion- like a few women on this thread have said they have.

GreatDuckCookery6211 · 11/12/2017 09:17

Is the term rapey a thing now? It fucking shouldn’t be. Horrible and almost dismissive.

As for the song. Jesus wept. This is a whole new level of madness.

Pumperthepumper · 11/12/2017 09:24

GreatDuck again, I don’t think it’s so much the song by itself - it’s the culture the song represents to some people. At a time when sexual assault allegations are off the scale AND we have a #metoo campaign highlighting just how massively widespread sexual assault is, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to say ‘em, maybe give this one a miss this year’.

MrsJayy · 11/12/2017 09:28

Yes tom jones and Cerys Mathews version made it creepy. I looked back my post I am sorry I said rapey

curryforbreakfast · 11/12/2017 09:29

It's not being sung in 1945 or 1949 but 2017 at at time when secam assault and sexual coercion is massively in everyone's attention

which is why you should be able to clearly see that you are hugely biased by what is happening now and should know better than to try and apply what is going on now to anything from 70 years ago.

BarryTheKestrel · 11/12/2017 09:29

The song was written in the 1940s. Any modern day meaning cannot be attached to it as it almost certainly makes no reference to anything that would be in our sphere of understanding in terms of social values and expectations.

The explanation up thread of societal norms being that a woman had to put up a weak argument to protect her reputation and therefore blaming the 'drink' which is not spiked, or even strong, to do as she pleases is a good one.

In those days it was not the done thing for a woman to want sex or to do as she pleases, so rather than be left to the mercy of gossips she puts up a weak argument.

The song, if written today, would be considered 'rapey' due to the same reference that 70+ years ago was considered entirely innocent, because date rape drugs are common place now and that is where your mind jumps. This is not the spirit of the song.

If you feel you need to let down your choir by not performing because you hate the song so much, do so. However if I were in your choir and I found that this was the reason you didn't attend I wouldn't be best pleased.

CaptainKirkssparetupee · 11/12/2017 09:37

I don't like the song, but originally the role were reversed.

TatianaLarina · 11/12/2017 09:41

heard this song many times, and see nothing sleazy in it. A couple who obviously fancy one another, she's pretending she doesn't want to stay for reasons that were appropriate for the culture of the time.

This. It’s the song of woman who wants to stay with her lover but feels she ought to demure for propriety’s sake.

I can’t really get my head around posters who don’t understand the culture of the time or the nuance of the lyrics.

One of my favourite songs.

happymumof4crazykids · 11/12/2017 10:01

Ffs I am getting well and truly fed up of people taking offence at fuck all. It's a song. It is not 'rapey' or offensive to women! Pull up your big girl pants and find something real to be offended over Biscuit

SatsukiKusakabe · 11/12/2017 10:02

But what if some people are wrong in what they suddenly collectively feel this song represents? Everyone has to give it a miss for all time? Does it get deleted from the movie Elf? This song is a flirtatious song about mutual attraction and not wanting a nice evening to end, with a clever call and response overlapping melody, and the “cold” is both real and a metaphor for being apart from your loved one amidst all the gossiping “others”. Let It Snow has a similar theme of staying in the warm together instead of parting from each other to a cold outside world.

It seems an odd thing to have got caught up in all this. I have had bad experiences too, but I can’t help but feel we are getting distracted by things like this, and yes you can care about more than one thing, but the issue is also too important to be diluted. This seems like a “media” concept of addressing the issue of consent (I saw a story about the song on the bbc just now), lightweight, reductive, and not pertinent to women’s lives.

Original poster
Whyamistillawake · 11/12/2017 10:09

Like use of the word 'rapey'?

OP posts:
Pumperthepumper · 11/12/2017 10:11

Satsuki I guess it depends on how you see this culture - for me, discussing smaller issues doesn’t dilute the big ones, it just highlights a broad spectrum of things that are inappropriate. I would argue against it being reductive for the same reason, and unfortunately coercion (if that’s how you interpret the song) IS pertinent to women’s lives.

happymum a few pages ago I posted a link to a petition against the closure of women’s refuges. That’s a real issue, I’m sure you’ll agree, how about giving it a sign? Flowers

Pumperthepumper · 11/12/2017 10:15

Satsuki sorry, forgot to answer your first bit. I mean, if enough people decided the song was inappropriate and it WAS deleted from Elf, would that be a massive deal? Could it not just be replaced with a different song? In the same way Kevin’s Spacey’s scenes are now being cut from films and replaced with someone else?

CaptainKirkssparetupee · 11/12/2017 10:27

In the same way Kevin’s Spacey’s scenes are now being cut from films and replaced with someone else?
One film set to be released has replaced spacey, they've not gone back to already released movies and inserted Christopher Plumber into them.

Sullabylullaby · 11/12/2017 10:27

Have none of you ever played coy with a boyfriend? And watched them beg?

I may have done in a previous life

That's all that song is about. Honestly, some people get worked up about imagined things in their heads! How you could even begin to conceive that this was an abusive non-consensual encounter I can't imagine. Baffled I am.

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