Aibu to "starve" my 5 year old daughter

[Arrowfanatic]

Ok, hear me out.

As a baby my 5 year old ate a wide variety of food, she's my 3rd child and was the best eater. However as she has gotten older she has started to refuse more and more food. It has gotten to the stage now where all she will eat is chocolate cereal, shreddies, ham sandwiches and cheese and tomato pizza. She will eat crisps, chocolate, sweets and Apple's but "meal" wise that is it.

What do I do? I have never pandered to her, she gets exactly the same served up to her as the rest of the family and she just won't touch it. She is the most stubborn child ever. My health visitor said to refuse to cook anything she likes, that she won't let herself starve. Well that wasn't true, she went 3 days only eating cereal at brekkie and a sandwich for lunch. Would cry she was hungry but refused anything else until eventually on day 4 I relented and cooked pizza.

My aibu I guess is, would I be unreasonable to again refuse to cook what she does like even though I know she won't try to eat anything else. She's always coming down poorly, and gets sore lips and things which I'm sure is from a diet lacking in goodnss. I tried to get her to take vitamins, but she refused them totally.

Help me, I just don't know what to do??

I have 2 DC who would prove the statement: she will eat when hungry enough. Both probably on the spectrum, one, who's now an adult, doesn't feel hungry very often as his stomach's full of mucus. He has CF.

I have tried this too- I bugger off and busy myself and don't get involved at all. Whatever the food is, if there's bit she doesn't like, she'll leave them, and shout and tell me I've given her food she doesn't like etc etc

As littledinaco says, don't 'give' her anything. Put the food on the table and leave her to select what she puts on her own plate.

Removing pressure isn't a magic bullet. It certainly won't work overnight because it takes time for the expectation of a battle and the anxiety that accompanies it to subside. Only then can the child begin to consider trying something new and actually putting something in their mouth could take an awful lot longer.

Don't give it a time limit and then decide it hasn't worked. Putting pressure on again will just undo any good you did and the issue will get bigger and bigger.

If you've provided food she finds palatable and she still tries to draw you in, just give her permission to get something else you are happy to allow her to have as an alternative or permission to get down from the table.

We’ve been trying the Ellyn Sattler approach for ages and it hasn’t made any difference with our 5 year old. I don’t say that because I feel like being horribly negative, I say it because the reviews you hear from people who have followed the approach make it sound like things change virtually over night, but they often don’t.

WheresYouWheelieBin not everything works straight away for all children and if they’ve ended up associating food with stress/pressure/anxiety then it can take years to undo.

Especially if every now and then you interject with ‘why don’t you just give it a try’ or ‘you liked it yesterday, it’s the same’ etc. (Not saying you’ve done this, just a reason why people often say it doesn’t work).

Letting them help themselves with ZERO pressure may not ‘work’ straight away in terms of getting them to eat more variety but what it will do is give them a normal/positive relationship with food so when they do eventually eat more, they are doing so because they want to and because food is food, not because of a reward system you have set up or a punishment system.

This relationship with food will follow them into their adult lives and set up healthy eating habits for a lifetime.

Just look at all the adults who find it hard not to clear their plate even when they are full or eat for emotional comfort or ‘reward’ themselves with food after they have put the kids to bed/after a busy day at work, etc.

It’s hard not to feel disheartened but you need to take all the emotion out for yourself so you’re at a point where you are neither happy/sad/stressed whatever your DC eat. They do pick up on it and once they sense you are genuinely not bothered, the pressure is off for them completely.

I think with Satter it is as much as the adults renegotiating their mindset as it is the kids changing... don’t be downhearted! I know it’s hard because it seems so public an issue, and you can’t avoid it with other people and their judgement, which makes it seem worse.

I would take the approach of empty plates on the table with food in the middle for her to pick what she wants herself. Try really hard to make the food look pretty and appetising, colourful, new etc. Point blank ignore any negative comments she makes about 'I don't like that', when she says she's done just say 'okay!' as you would to your other children. Don't make a big deal out of anything, totally stop prompting or pushing or encouraging her. I would stop buying chocolate and sweets, but make and put on the table home made desserts including chocolate desserts etc instead, with different textures/colours - let her have dessert if she'll try it, regardless of whether she's eaten dinner. Offer high calorie drinks like flavoured milk, fruit juices, smoothies. Make sure there's always one aspect of the meal she does like on the table. I wouldn't fight breakfast, just let her have the cereal for now. For packed lunches, pack what she'll eat plus something new every day. Persevere, and don't react to negativity, praise praise praise if she tries something new - 'good job, i'm so proud of you!'
I would be less concerned about nutritious variety and more concerned about overcoming the fussiness with variety and calories.

I don’t agree with the praising if they try something. This is setting up that food is a reward/pleases mummy.

It also reinforces that they are bad/naughty/don’t make you happy when they don’t try = lots of pressure.

The praise itself can also be pressure/drawing attention which isn’t always good.

If you want to praise, tell them well done for sitting nicely at the table/helping you clear up,etc but no comments whatsoever on trying/eating the food.

There is a specialist clinicin Birmingham for this if it helps, which I learned about yesterday. A friend who is also a paed sent me the link this week after attending a conference, where the lead spoke. She was apparently very impressive. It's private, though, and I have no idea on costs. Worth an email to ask though, perhaps?

It's for kids with serious problems - DS is ASD. But we will try to take him in the new year because evidence based support beyond, "do you get him to cook with you?" and "he won't starve himself, you know!" sounds a godsend.

To all those saying just let her eat what she likes - rod for your child's back, and your own. DP and his ex were advised that and now their daughter who is now 11 will eat toast, chicken nuggets and chips, raw carrots and cucumber and nothing else. She's quite happy to eat crisps, chocolate and ice cream though.

I don't believe its that they don't like something, I think it's that they would just prefer something else (eg a bag of crisps or chocolate) and her ineffective parents pander to this as an hour after meal time she is 'starving'

And some people just gag at the smell/taste/texture of stuff. DD has sensory issues with food. The smell of greasy food makes her heave. She's gradually getting better, she'll now go McDonald's, but I don't order hash browns for her, and she'll only eat a few chips. I mean, she'll eat the burger and maybe 3 chips. The only food is really can't eat is cornflakes. Most people have foods they really can't stand.

My ds did this when he was 4, it was incredibly frustrating but after doing some reading I backed off and let him eat what he wanted with no pressure. He ate an omelette for dinner for weeks. He's now 9 and is still a bit fussy but has a reasonably varied diet and will try new things voluntarily eg. Yesterday he ate spinach and ricotta lasagna which would have been unimaginable at one point!

I’d completely stop giving her chocolate sweets and crisps. If she’s hooked on the salt and sugar taste, realigning her taste buds might help a little.

It isnt that unhealthy though.

Cereal is iron and vitamin fortified. Milk on the cereal is full of nutrients.

Nothing wrong with a ham sandwich or cheese and tomato pizza. She eats Apple's.

She may eventually get bored herself as she matures and try other things

I think it's v complex and some of the responses here either show ignorance or very, very different children. My ds1 is like your dd, OP, and we've found what I believe is a healthy balance. There's no way my ds would have weetabix everyday, a 'school lunch' and then a jacket potato. There is no way he'd have different kinds of pizza especially with a cauliflower base. He also goes of things he's had too much of. In fact, the best thing is when he's happier he eats better. He's a little bit better now than he used to be (he's 12). He discovered he liked bean sprouts and chow mein! Also steak and steak pie.

In terms of approach we've gone with.The way we deal with anything kids don't want to do eg. Going to bed or homework. Consideration of their wants plus consideration of their needs. He does have a vegetable with every meal but I make sure there is one he tolerates. And he has to have it in a separate bowl, but he does have to eat it. If he just ate what he wanted, went to bed when he wanted, went on as much tech as he wanted and did homework if/ when he wanted, there would be a very unhappy, unhealthy boy.

OP, I've not read the whole thread, but it's worth checking anything else out that may contribute to this. Think my ds is borderline asd/ some sen but not bad enough to be diagnosed (well he's got an add diagnosis). You're dd sounds a bit worse in terms of appetite, and I have to say age 5-9 were our worst years as he was so unhappy at school. With secondary starting this year he's regressed a bit, but occasionally tries something and discovered something new he likes.

If he just ate what he wanted, went to bed when he wanted, went on as much tech as he wanted and did homework if/ when he wanted, there would be a very unhappy, unhealthy boy.

If you made a healthy balanced selection of food available and allowed him to select from that what he would like to put in his own mouth, he would be far more likely to grow up with a healthy relationship with food. At the moment, you are teaching him that eating vegetables is a nasty task to be endured, not enjoyed.

Shreddies for breakfast, a ham sandwich and an apple for lunch and cheese and tomato pizza for tea isn't that bad a diet. I would give her what she likes with the option of other things e.g. carrot sticks, cucumber, veg etc.

Ds1 was a dreadfully fussy eater. For a long time he had pasta, broccoli and cheese for tea everyday because he wouldn't eat anything else. He started to eat more once he started school. One day he asked if he could have school dinners so I let him have them on days when it was pasta at first. He's now nearly 13 and eats everything.

I'm sorry I haven't read the whole thread, so I don't know if this has already been suggested. What works for my very fussy DD is getting her involved with preparation and cooking. She won't eat eggs on their own, but knows that they go in to cakes and pancakes, and is happy to eat those. I make home-made breaded chicken goujons, and she loves to do the egg and breadcrumb coating on those. And helping with food preparation has made her more inclined to try the food.

Something different which has helped here is gymnastics / sport. She loves it and wants to get better. Along with the practice we have researched what foods her body needs to be strong and to develop muscles. She knows she has then eat some to improve her gymnastics. Food refusal is so stressful. I have 2 not great eaters but not to your extent.

MerryMarigold I agree. I get so fed up of well-meaning people brightly suggesting cooking with them, like it's some amazing new idea. Or loftily saying that they will eat when hungry. It's like sleep - people who have never had issues believe that's down to their superior management, and not genetic luck.

If a child responds to being starved, cooking the food, or the issue being ignored, then they don't have a genuine problem. They're just being picky, and that's fine. Real food issues are not so simple.

I agree perfect but there again every time ds sees the dietician they come out with the “cook with them” advice so when professionals are doing it then there is no hope really!

If a child responds to being starved, cooking the food, or the issue being ignored, then they don't have a genuine problem. They're just being picky, and that's fine. Real food issues are not so simple.

If a child is becoming anxious about food because their parents are pushing them to eat, it is a real issue to them and the advice to stop pushing is really important.

If a child is becoming resistant to eating because they are struggling with smells and textures, preparing food with them to help it all smell and feel more familiar can make a huge difference.

There are lots of strategies that help parents not to keep ploughing down the road that leads to food phobias an lifelong food issues and threads like this help lots of parents.

Food issues that are a result of parenting rather than the child's neurodevelopment are still real and they still cause huge, genuine problems for some families.

I don't believe I'm teaching my ds to hate vegetables. I'm teaching him to keep his options open, that there are some healthy things you may not like doing but which you do because it's good for you. Yes of rather eat chocolate than broccoli, if going purely on taste and what I fancied. Wouldn't most of is even as adults? The same argument can be applied to not limiting technology. Kids 'self regulate' of they'd no restrictions. Well not my kids or any of the ones I know. My ds is getting a bit better and does try new things now and again, very much depending on his mood and appetite.

If a child is becoming anxious about food because their parents are pushing them to eat, it is a real issue to them and the advice to stop pushing is really important.

Exactly.

Children are not adults. They haven't developed our experience yet.

I still cant eat certain things as my parents forced me to eat certain things I really didnt like.

This child is eating cereals, apples, ham, cheese and tomato pizza, it's fine. It's enough nutrients. Just let her eat the things she enjoys .

I was terrible as a kid. The only kind of pasta I would eat was plain with butter and salt. Now you should see the things I eat. I just outgrew my fussiness.

MerryMarigold

Your job ends when you have decided what is available. That is how you provide the guidance appropriate from an adult. It isn't appropriate to decide for the child which of the food that are available should go in his mouth.

It is possible to win the battle sometimes and some children can learn to tolerate eating foods they dislike but it's a chore and it doesn't set them up for healthy eating in the future.

Making children eat things they would prefer not to eat is about meeting the adult's need for control, not the child's need for nutrition.