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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

That Britain should rethink BREXIT

652 replies

WallisofWindsor · 06/12/2017 12:14

David Davis admitting that the impact of Brexit will be equal to the credit crunch should surely make the country revisit the decision.
Why put your country through such a difficult period?

OP posts:
curryforbreakfast · 07/12/2017 15:11

If it won now at least we would know that those who vote leave actually understood (a bit at least) what they were voting for.

Don't you mind changing the very nature of your country by an tiny minority in a referendum nobody understood? Aren't you angry and offended at being treated this way....even if you voted and would still vote leave?

RubMyRhubarb · 07/12/2017 15:21

I'm not sure I agree with the "tiny" majority thing. If you look at the percentage 52/48 then sure, it doesn't look like much of an ass-whooping (and again, I don't think anyone is making any serious claims that it was) but if you look at the number of voters, it was 1.5 MILLION more (I think?) in favour of leave.

That's quite a lot of people no matter which way you slice it. Do you think that many people have changed their views since? There aren't many subjects or even contexts in which 1.5 Million is considered a "tiny" number. It's not even all that tiny in fields like cosmology.

curryforbreakfast · 07/12/2017 15:24

That's tiny, as a majority.

Crackednips · 07/12/2017 15:28

In a Utopian Shangri La of a world -- nothing I don't suppose, 0r at least not much.

But in reality? I don't know where to begin

RubMyRhubarb · 07/12/2017 15:28

Maybe so but as a number of people I'm not sure it's quite so tiny. That's a lot of minds to change, and seeing as leavers are frequently labelled stubborn and dogmatic, how many of those 1.5 million minds do you think have changed? I'm not saying none have but it's evident that many (many) have not so wouldn't you just get the same or similar outcome again? As a PP (and I have also earlier in the thread) asks - what then?

curryforbreakfast · 07/12/2017 15:30

If the majority got even less tiny, that would say a lot. But I could not be more confident that it would go the other way if put to a new vote.

You should have a decisive mandate for change on a massive scale. And Brexit did not, and does not, have that.

MissionItsPossible · 07/12/2017 15:36

And if it increased?

Maryz · 07/12/2017 15:36

Can whoever did them be forced to publish the outcome of the impact reports? I don't believe for a minute there are none at all.

Either they were started and stopped when the results didn't look good, or they were completed and aren't being published because the results don't look good.

Someone, somewhere must have done some research on this. There is an entire country (and continent) interested in the possible outcome of Brexit; somewhere, some university student or company executive has been tasked with finding a few figures.

curryforbreakfast · 07/12/2017 15:37

And if it increased?

I'd cry. And probably leave. But at least it would be more democratic.

araiwa · 07/12/2017 15:37

The eu has done studies and they are all freely available

Peregrina · 07/12/2017 15:42

I presume you are not asking questions to politicians so maybe it's less ducking and more of a case of how the bloody hell do I know!?

I most certain am, and since my previous lazy Tory MP couldn't be bothered to represent her constituency, I did my level best to see her voted out. We succeeded. When and MP effectively tells their Constituents that they neither know nor care then don't be surprised when the Constituents return the favour.

Maryz · 07/12/2017 15:47

Where araiwa? Sorry to ask but when I google "projected outcome of Brexit" I get a load of shite, nothing that looks remotely "verified" iyswim.

Maryz · 07/12/2017 15:50

Sorry, I'll rephrase that. I can obviously see a lot of studies if I search on google scholar, but I'd love someone to link me to a specific one that is recognised as being "credible" - I recognise that such a request is incredibly lazy Blush

Crackednips · 07/12/2017 15:52

Who is responsible for compiling and publishing these so-called Brexit Impact Assessments?

Maryz · 07/12/2017 16:00

this links to a summary of some of the work in the area - and implies (to me) that it's a load of guesswork.

And this summary of various newspaper reports (which may have been linked before) implies that parliament has been misled and the public deceived Shock - which are strong words.

RebeccaWithTheGoodHair · 07/12/2017 16:04

I've just written to my MP pointing out that one of his duties is to do right by his constituents (he is a bloke hence 'he').

How can he possibly think he is doing right by them when, at the very least, it will cost them more in terms of prices going up/pound going down. Let alone the potential break-up of the UK - the very last thing you'd think most leave voters would want.

This horrible shitstorm just gets worse and how can anyone be sure what the leave voters actually voted for anymore as no-one seems to actually know what the Govt even meant by the question. Certainly they didn't or you would imagine someone would have had a list of options with pros and cons so we could chart our way through.

We've only been asked to do 3 things so far and have managed to fuck each of them up in a different but equally torturous and long-winded way.

I am frankly terrified at the thought of leaving with the no-deal option - what on earth will happen?

How can leavers blame the EU, Ireland and remainers for this situation? What it is that leavers actually want:

no immigration - well that's not going to happen as other countries (India) will want changes
sovereignty - we never didn't have it and have been an integral part of the laws the EU has passed
more money for the NHS - a crashed pound and loss of jobs (therefore tax revenue) is blatantly not going to make that possible

And what else? I can't think of anything that leavers have ever specified is important to them.

This fucked-up situation seems to be getting more and more out of control and is becoming more unstoppable. Why can't more MPs just tell the truth or at the very least ask the Govt to actually say what they are actually planning to achieve? Even if it's going to be impossible we would at least have some clarity about what they think is best for the country.

Humpsfor20yards · 07/12/2017 16:05

It is a bit funny that the same people who don't give a shit about David davis' lies to parliament, or Russian meddling in the ref are the same people shouting how much they care about democracy more than anyone else. Confused

curryforbreakfast · 07/12/2017 16:05

Who is responsible for compiling and publishing these so-called Brexit Impact Assessments?

which ones? The ones the government says they didn't do?

Humpsfor20yards · 07/12/2017 16:07

The ones David Davis said were full of excruciating detail?

Crackednips · 07/12/2017 16:11

They seem to be opinion pieces. 'The Week' one wouldn't load properly, I'll try it again later..

I wasn't attempting a trick question before btw, I've been looking into it just now. It seems that Impact assessments are made by Treasury civil servants, and the chances are they'll be about as reliable - (and of course 'impartial') - as their doomy impact assessments made by Treasury civil servants in the run up to the Brexit Ref' i.e. not worth the paper they're written on.

RebeccaWithTheGoodHair · 07/12/2017 16:12

as their doomy impact assessments made by Treasury civil servants in the run up to the Brexit Ref' i.e. not worth the paper they're written on.

what? the very ones that are proving to be more and more accurate with each economic forecast?

TheElementsSong · 07/12/2017 16:12

It's OK, the Impact Assessments don't exist.

Sludgecolours · 07/12/2017 16:14

I wish it weren't the case but I think there are too many people who just want to leave the EU no matter what the consequences because of this "getting back control" myth. It was a very clever slogan; backed up by years of misrepresentation of how the EU works by certain factions of the press. And I think the EU itself bears some responsibility for not getting its message across effectively.

Figmentofmyimagination has said what I wanted to say but far more eloquently and intelligently than I could put it!

I don't think people realise that a nation can be wholly sovereign and not have any influence at all!

Being a member of NATO impinges on our sovereignty for example - as does signing up to any number of international treaties - but we do so because sometimes giving up a bit of power gives us more benefits than if we didn't!

And people lazily accept that laws are imposed on us from on high by the EU without understanding that the UK has had as much say (if not more in many instances!) as all the other 27 member states in the forming, approving and influencing of that legislation.

Take the hoover example (sorry for bleating on about this but it is a good example). People moan that the great big bad EU has made it impossible for us to buy powerful hoovers. Yes, the legislation was proposed by the EU as a sensible energy saving measure and good for the environment, having looked at the science, and discovered that it is all about suction and not engine power anyway! ALL of the EU member states including the UK voted on these energy saving measures and the legislation was scrutinised and amended by our own parliamentary committee before it was passed. So we had as much say in that law as everyone else; and yet somehow it was "imposed" on us by the EU when that is just not factually true! The point is that the legislation can't be "imposed" on us because we agreed the originally objective and we wanted these objectives achieved across all member states of the EU. This is one example among a myriad of other laws and measures.

Finally, does everyone have so much faith in our (currently incompetent!) national government that they really don't welcome food and environmental standards (to name just a few) being scrutinised at another level and the UK government being made accountable?

Sometimes "being totally sovereign" is not all it is cracked up to be!

RebeccaWithTheGoodHair · 07/12/2017 16:14

fantastic - so there won't be any impact because the Govt says it's so unimportant that they don't need doing in any detail, let alone excruciating detail to show that someone somewhere is actually considering what is going to happen.

Humpsfor20yards · 07/12/2017 16:15

You're really trying to defend David 'we've undertaken 58 impact assessments here on the impact of brexit over 85% of the economy ' - 'oh no we haven't' Davis here?

Staggering.

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