‘Uneasy lies the head that wears the crown’ - as it should be! Trump thread continued.

[TheClaws]

From Shakespeake’s Henry IV, Act 3 Scene 1.

Old thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3094156-All-we-want-for-Christmas-is-an-IMPEACHMENT-Trump-cont

The higher oil prices help Saudi Arabia more than Russia.

But Russia doesn't have the same skin in the game, so to speak, that Saudi does so they reap the benefits with none of the risk (I think). It's a way to counter the effect of sanctions - not that Trump is any closer to imposing the latest ones.

That's my limited understanding, anyway. It's entirely possible that it's incorrect!

Is he in some kind of weird competition to see how many people in the world he can piss off?

Brian Krassenstein 🐬‏
@krassenstein

BREAKING: Chris Christie says that his Warning about Michael Flynn was among the reasons Trump fired him from The transition team.

The News is coming fast. Trump's days are numbered!

Across, the actual significance of Jerusalem has multiple facets to it:

Firstly, it's been the historical capital of choice (for a territory whose borders have historically shifted, actually) not only for Jewish Israelis but also for every other regime the region has seen dating back to at least Roman times.

Secondly, and as a secular thinker I'd argue at least in part as the result of the first issue, it's got religious significance to all three Abrahamic religions.

Thirdly, the disputed annexation first of West Jerusalem and, later, East Jerusalem is seen from the Palestinian perspective as colonialist aggression aggravated by the plane's symbolism. Israel laying claim to West Jerusalem a few months after its establishment actually marks the beginning of post 48 territorial expansion.

And in consequence of all of these, which is arguably the real bone of contention: it's got tremendous symbolic and emotional significance to the extent that all sorts of things on both sides as well as among allies are named after it, that it figures in songs, literature, art, ... you name it.

I'd actually go so far as to argue that the place is often represented as an embodiment of the idealised nationalist notion of a wholesome homeland by both sides alike.

Broad strokes but this might help, *Across(.

www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/06/us-recognition-of-jerusalem-as-israel-capital-what-it-means

Connections.

Christina Wilkie
@christinawilkie
REUTERS: 8 countries, including France, Egypt, and the UK, have requested an emergency meeting of the UN Security Council over Trump's Jerusalem decision.

France and the UK. Our closest allies.

Protests.

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/jerusalem-live-updates-israel-capital-donald-trump-latest-news-palestine-us-president-recognise-a8094321.html

" Even the State Department concedes it could sow unrest throughout the Middle East. "

Tillerson will go sooner rather than later, I reckon.

Background on money trail.

www.crainsnewyork.com/article/20171205/POLITICS/171209946

Thank you to all who provided info and links. I have a better grasp now of why Jerusalem is such a point of contention between the Jewish and Palestinian peoples in Israel. And why moving the embassy is seen as a blow against the two party state solution.

Once again, Scrotus only knows that he wants to do it because he said he would. Not because it's the right or smart thing to do.

Yes. But his base likes unorthodox so there is that.

Looks like Trump Jr. will take one for the team.

TheBeat w/Ari Melber‏Verified account
@TheBeatWithAri

Trump Jr. "refused to answer any questions about conversations he had with his father" @RepSwalwell on Trump Jr. speaking to Russia investigators today about 2016 Trump Tower Meeting

Swamp.

thehill.com/homenews/media/363623-clarence-thomass-wife-presents-award-to-conservative-activist-who-tried-to

www.rawstory.com/2017/12/don-jr-cites-attorney-client-privilege-as-reason-he-wont-tel-congress-about-conversations-with-trump/

Well someone is going to have to fall on their sword.

The crown will still be lost.

The only saving grace - and it's limited - in 45 on the international scene is that people now know what he is.

Indeed Cozie. They’ll know he is no-one’s ally but his own, and he cannot separate personal feeling from the business of the country. So, if he doesn’t get on with the leader of a particular country, that country is no longer an ally in trade nor defence. He is eager to make friends only to advance trade for the benefit of the US, or exploit existing friendships to make deals. And I think they know he would be quick to drop any alliance he feels is no longer of any benefit to him/the US.

Attorney-client privilege? They really are utter fuckwits aren’t they?

This might be an unnecessary worry but if he’d allowed to get away with claiming that and then escaped having to answer any of the commitee’s qusstions, what’s the point of the committee? It might be an unnecessary worry because I don’t know if they’ll now subpoena him (?) or take any other steps to compel him to cooperate but it would be utterly toothless if it was left as it is.

Germany have made a pretty strong statement that acknowledges that but also that things have irrevocably changed.

Germany warns US 'will never be the same' now Donald Trump is president

Foreign minister Sigmar Gabriel delivers stark warning over US approach to international relations

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/germany-us-donald-trump-president-america-angela-merkel-alt-right-israel-europe-sigmar-gabriel-a8094331.html

Sigmar Gabriel, the European power’s top diplomat, delivered a stark warning over America’s new approach to international relations during a speech to foreign policy experts on Tuesday.

"The US no longer sees the world as a global community, but as a fighting arena where everyone has to seek their own advantage," Mr Gabriel told the Berlin Foreign Policy Forum, according to German newspaper Deutsche Welle.

”Germany can no longer simply react to US policy but must establish its own position… even after Trump leaves the White House, relations with the US will never be the same.”

Mr Gabriel said that “nobody has turned towards the European Union” after the US withdrawal from the international stage, suggesting the bloc was failing to stand for a specific set of values and accusing member states of treating the union “as if they have a second one in their pocket”.

The 58-year-old also warned Europe “could stand right now in front of a new nuclear arms race” if member states did not live up to their progressive ideals.

Rosneft Hedges Russia Sanction Threat With Record Debt Binge

www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-04/rosneft-hedges-sanctions-threat-with-record-debt-binge-in-2017

Rosneft Oil PJSC has racked up more than $17 billion worth of debt in 2017, its biggest year of borrowing on record, as the threat of new sanctions hangs over Russian debt markets.

Russia’s state-owned oil giant whose access to global capital markets is blocked by previous punitive measures issued new notes Friday that took this year’s borrowings in the bond market to 1 trillion rubles ($17 billion). That’s more than the total for the past two years combined, according to data compiled by Bloomberg.

Rosneft has turned to investors at home since sanctions over Russia’s 2014 takeover of Crimea closed off U.S. and European capital markets. Now, the U.S. Treasury is preparing recommendations on the impact of extending penalties to sovereign ruble debt. Should Russia’s government grow more dependent on local investors, that could shrink the amount of liquidity available to state-owned issuers.

Faced with $7 billion of debt payments to Western banks in December 2014, Rosneft issued 1 trillion rubles of debt over several months via Bank Otkritie FC, which used the notes as collateral to borrow dollars from the central bank and lend back to the oil company. The deal contributed to the ruble’s plunge and earned Sechin a rare public rebuke from President Vladimir Putin.

Ah, so not necessarily unfounded fears re:committee being toothless

Renato Mariotti
@renato_mariotti
THREAD: Was the conversation between Trump Jr. and his father privileged because an attorney was present?
1/ As the @Politico story above discussed, Trump Jr. refused to testify about a conversation with his father because an attorney was present and he claimed it was subject to attorney-client privilege.
2/ The general rule is that a conversation is not privileged if a third person is present for the conversation with an attorney and a client.
3/ Some courts have found that the privilege was not waived when a family member was present where the family member had a role in taking care of the client. For instance, if a son was a caregiver to an elderly parent.
4/ In this instance, both Trump and Trump Jr. are subjects of the same investigation, and any legal advice they received on these topics would potentially implicate the other person. I doubt any court would conclude this conversation was privileged.
5/ But witnesses in the Congressional investigations will continue to be able to evade answering questions if Congress is unwilling to hold them in contempt to make them pay a price for doing so. /end

A 'serious case of amnesia': House Intel Democrat says Trump Jr. was 'pretty non-responsive' in 8-hour interview

amp.businessinsider.com/trump-jr-testimony-house-intel-committee-russia-probe-2017-12?__twitter_impression=true

President Donald Trump's son, Donald Jr., was "pretty non-responsive" on a range of issues during his eight-hour testimony before the House Intelligence Committee on Wednesday, according to a Democratic member of the committee.

"My takeaway is he has a very serious case of amnesia," Rep. Jackie Speier told CNN on Wednesday just after the lengthy interview ended.

"He was pretty non-responsive on a lot of issues that, frankly, you would have a recollection of, considering it was just a year ago that many of these events took place when Donald Trump was the candidate," Speier said. "He was by his father's side; he was campaigning with his father. And you get the impression in listening to him that he didn't spend much time talking to his father."

Speier added that Trump Jr.'s responses seemed unusually black-and-white.

"Lots of people don't recall things," she said. "But, I would say that there are elements of this where he was very clear and knew precisely what had happened, and then other circumstances he didn't at all."

Committee Democrats asked Trump Jr. about his correspondence with WikiLeaks, but focused most of their questions on the meeting he attended at Trump Tower last June with his brother-in-law Jared Kushner and Paul Manafort, his father's campaign chairman at the time.

At one point, they homed in on the first statement Trump Jr. issued in response to the New York Times' disclosure of the June 9 meeting. Multiple media reports have indicated that the president crafted that response, which was misleading in that it failed to mention Trump Jr.'s motivation for taking the meeting: to obtain dirt on Hillary Clinton.