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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that bit is impossible to live off of benefits?

748 replies

Rolf38 · 30/11/2017 21:49

So Universal Credit rates are £498.89 an adult couple over the age of 25. This is meant to last them one whole month. So £250 per adult which works out at about £60 per week or just £8.57 per day.

How is someone meant to buy food, pay their bills and maintain a jobsearch at these rates?

I understand that some may think that by setting benefits at a low rate, there will be a greater incentive for recipients to return to work. This I understand and agree with to a point.

Surely though that danger of setting benefit rates too low is that it has the opposite effect. Claimants may reun the risk of getting in to debt, depression and lose the desire to maintain an active job search, along with any ambitions and aspirations they ever had.

Is met ting benefit rates too low a precursor to the increase of long term benefit claimants, simply by affording claimants less resources and willpower to maintain their job search?

After all, say if have been unemployed fir or three months. In this time, you have been so cash strapped that you haven't even been able to go to the cinema or meet an old friend, as bills and increasing debts have taken priority.

Without just a bit of enjoyment to boost morale, how less determined would a claimant be to give their job search their all as they would be if they could take their mind off of it for a bit.

For the couples payment too, I wouldn't be surprised if such a low payment to sustain two adults for a month may cause friction in the relationship, adding further restrictions to morale and job search.

Of course taxpayers money should be treated with the utmost respect.

However, is keeping benefit rates at such a low level proving more costly in the long run?

Why not add an incentive for job search for claimants? Increase UC payments by 10% for those who continually do all they can for their job search over a sustained period (say three months).

Such an increase, just form he most committed in their job search, would act as a continued incentive for the most determined to find work quicker (thus reducing long-term burdens on the taxpayers). Restricting an enhanced payment to just the most committed would also ensure that those not committed to athe or jobsearch and envisage a long-term existence on benefits find that this, beyond subsidence level, is not sustainable.

If you are doing everything you can in your jobsearch, why should you be unable to afford very basic enjoyments (even on a very occasional basis)? Why are those who put in the effort, in testing times, not differentiated from those who show no desire to come off benefits.

Perhaps in addition to sanctioning claimants who do not fulfill their commitments, the government should do more to help and reward the positive attitude to do all they can to get back to work.

OP posts:
Viviennemary · 09/12/2017 17:41

I thought the principle of UC was to make it worthwhile for people to work rather than be worse off than unemployed people. People with children over a certain age will have to work more hours than they do now to qualify. I don't know how much worse off people will be. But the present system is hopeless. With people better off not working than working or only working a few hours because they'd actually be worse off if they worked more. It needed to be changed.

DarlesChickens61 · 09/12/2017 18:03

Why don't you go first Darles if it's such an attractive option?

Been there, got the tshirt. I soon realised that working whilst raising my children, as a single parent, was the more worthwhile option. For myself and the British taxpayer.

Yes it was difficult juggling child care and finances at first. Young children are not forever....

RJnomore1 · 09/12/2017 18:06

Jesus wept.

user1492877024 · 09/12/2017 18:14

DarlesChickens61

Good post, and I agree. Some on here seem hell bent on finding a reason why they can't work rather than the opposite. And before you all dive in, I do not include the genuine cases and I also accept that this time next month/year, I could be dependant on benefits, for all I know.

KathArtic · 09/12/2017 18:28

Yes, some people have a long list of reasons why they can't work, or can't work more hours our can't get a better job.

Allergictoironing · 09/12/2017 18:37

It really isn't that easy to "just get a job". I was turned down for countless jobs as being "overqualified", and those I wasn't overqualified for there would be someone with exactly the right experience for etc. We aren't talking me being fussy here, I was applying for anything I could physically cope with including minimum wage etc. Then employers tend to prefer people under 21 as they have a lower minimum wage, not forgetting all the jobs that used to be about that are now "apprenticeships". Many employers will shy away from parents (mothers especially) with school age DCs as there is a higher chance that they will need time off at short notice - I know that's not really legal, but it happens. With literally hundreds of applications for every job out there, employers can pick & choose and gods help you if you don't fit exactly the image they have in their heads - e.g. they will choose young & pretty over middle aged & frumpy every time!

It's worse for many people without DC, as they don't qualify for many of the benefits. And heaven forbid you tried to buy your own home rather than renting, NO help with that for almost a year of being out of work not even to help cover the interest despite that being often much less than rental costs.

scampiandchips1 · 09/12/2017 18:45

Benefits should only be given to disabled people, pensioners, ex veterans and carers in my opinion.

We are very lucky to live in a country that provides us with a free education up to the age of 16 and I'm sorry but there is absolutely no excuse to not go out and get a job with the education given to you. It's pure laziness in my opinion. There is a job for everyone.

And if you are not in a financial position to be able to have kids then either work harder, save up or don't have them!
Everyone should take responsibility for their own actions rather than relying on our government to look after them.

Most countries offer no benefits so the fact that people who are fit and able to work but don't, are complaining that they don't get enough free money from the government just makes me laugh. Sorry but I have no sympathy.

Our NHS is under so much financial strain and needs so much more money than it is getting, that's where tax payers money should be going!

user1492877024 · 09/12/2017 18:49

scampiandchips1

I agree with everything you have stated except your comments, re, ex veterans. Why have you singled them out?

Frequency · 09/12/2017 18:51

It really isn't that easy to "just get a job". I was turned down for countless jobs as being "overqualified", and those I wasn't overqualified for there would be someone with exactly the right experience for etc

Yup.

When I was searching for jobs to fit around DD I was overqualified to work as dinner lady and in a small sandwich bar because I'd been in management positions in restaurants and bars, not flexible enough for cleaning agencies as I couldn't do early starts/late nights, not experienced enough for higher level office work despite having an NVQ level 3 in business but overqualified for office junior positions because I had an NVQ level 3 in business Confused

I gave up and turned to freelancing. When the dog got sick and I realised I hadn't left the house, bathed or dressed in anything over PJs for five days solid, I realised being home with no routine or escape is not good for my own mental health and found a college course that fits around DD's needs.

I still apply for the few jobs that pop up with school hour (or near to) shifts but never hear anything back. Although, at this point, almost halfway through my course, I'm not sure I'd take any job I was offered as it seems to silly to leave the course so close to the end.

I intend to freelance as a hairdresser alongside my writing once I qualify but dread UC coming in before I'm earning enough to manage without it.

DownHereInTheHorridHouse · 09/12/2017 18:51

There are some truly shocking attitudes on here - but even if you are completely self-centred, what makes you think it couldn't happen to you? I have three chronic health conditions and there is absolutely no way I could ever maintain a full-time job outside the home. I am extremely lucky in that I have managed to become self-employed - I know that no one would employ me. My degrees, my achievements, my abilities mean nothing when coupled with what the reality of what I would be like as an employee. Knowing all of that, how could I possibly begrudge others claiming help when they are in similar positions?

All this race to the bottom stuff is heartbeaking, it really is. I think that, if you're paying 40% tax, you should see that as a privilege - it's the moral responsibility of those 'with' to help those 'without', and all of this 'spending my taxes on my behalf' nonsense is why we are in this state. Complaining that people are going to the park, or having a camping holiday . . . really?

scampiandchips1 · 09/12/2017 18:57

User149

Ex Veterans can sometimes find it very hard to re-establish themselves in our society as what they do is so niche. They have a relatively short career and find it hard to readjust. They serve for our country and a lot suffer from PTSD. I believe that in some cases ex veterans fully deserve benefits so they are able to have a good quality of life on leaving the service. That's the minimum our country can offer them in my opinion.

YellowMakesMeSmile · 09/12/2017 18:59

Scampi, bar the ex veterans I agree.

it's the moral responsibility of those 'with' to help those 'without

Why? Given that many of those "without" are there through to choices they made. We all have free education until eighteen so theres no excuse to not use that. What we all don't do, as the country won't survive, is opt out of working or do enough to get around the caps.

The moral responsibility should be to self support not go to work to support those that won't or who made choices they can't afford but wanted anyway.

Frequency · 09/12/2017 18:59

You realise PTSD affects a lot of people?

Women escaping abusive relationships and people who've grown up in abusive households to name just two.

scampiandchips1 · 09/12/2017 19:26

Frequency

PTSD isn't the only reason why ex military deserve benefits. Maybe the fact that they've risked their lives for our country should be enough. They pretty much give up their lives to protect us and maintain our freedom.
They 100% deserve it more than Joe Bloggs with a "bad back" who has never worked a day in his life!

DownHereInTheHorridHouse · 09/12/2017 19:30

Yellow - you pulled the bit in bold out of my post and replied:

it's the moral responsibility of those 'with' to help those 'without'

Why? Given that many of those "without" are there through to choices they made. We all have free education until eighteen so theres no excuse to not use that. What we all don't do, as the country won't survive, is opt out of working or do enough to get around the caps.

I did say that was my opinion, about it being a moral responsibility - but, again my opinion, you can have all the free education in the world . . . not everyone can 'choose' their way out of health issues, abuse, violence, childhood poverty, and a thousand other things. There is a knock-on effect - and I hope I always recognise that, because I could easily have been one of the people you say have 'no excuse.'

Frequency · 09/12/2017 19:31

You can't get benefits for having a "bad back" Confused

Those against the benefits system, is your knowledge limited to the Daily Fail or have you actually researched before making your opinions?

RJnomore1 · 09/12/2017 19:35

Do you understand anything about how your background affects your ability to make choices and seize opportunities? About the attainment gap between the richest and the poorest children? About the lack of social capital that impacts on your ability to move upwards? About government policies which are crushing social mobility and making it harder to find their way out of poverty? About the negative impact upon the well off from living in N unequal society?

About worrying whether you use your last tenner to feed your kids or top up the gas?

Hats of to everyone who has managed to sort their way off benefits and out of poverty. I'm one of them. But because I have been able to I don't think everyone can, or st the same time, or without help.

and I do regard anyone who doesn't think they have a moral obligation to care for those weaker than them for whatever reason as gigantic arse holes.

user1492877024 · 09/12/2017 19:38

scampiandchips1

Sorry, now you've lost me completely. Have I been asleep? Have we been invaded? Please explain to me in what way have the military protected me and maintained my freedom?

scampiandchips1 · 09/12/2017 19:44

RJnomore
I work in Investment Banking and there is a guy in my team who is profoundly deaf (since birth) and was brought up in a children's home.

People are too quick to blame their childhood/upbringing on the reason why they can't get a job. Our Grandparents and Great Grandparents had to live through wars and probably lose a lot of family members and friends. They had a much more traumatic upbringing that anyone in today's society yet they never complained or blamed, they just got on with it.

I may sound cold hearted but I do think we live in a very lazy society where people feel sorry for themselves too much.

user1492877024 · 09/12/2017 19:53

scampiandchips1

I note you have avoided answering my questions.

They had a much more traumatic upbringing that anyone in today's society yet they never complained or blamed, they just got on with it.

How do you know they never complained or blamed and also that they just got on with it?

iamyourequal · 09/12/2017 20:01

@scampiThey had a much more traumatic upbringing that anyone in today's society yet they never complained or blamed, they just got on with it.
That is bollocks. There are plenty of children today experiencing very traumatic upbringing. There are children living in poverty wit parents who are addicts/alcoholics/have severe mental health problems who are having rotten childhoods. In my line of work I know this for fact.

RJnomore1 · 09/12/2017 20:02

I love th way we absolve the old just because they are old.

Some of those in their 70s and deserving of their pensions now were the ones people were saying the wxact same things as on this thread in the 1980s when they were in their 40s.

Anyway you're avoiding my points about the extremely well documented effects of poverty. You need to look at datasets not one individual you know,although I am very pleased to hear he beat the odds. Odds very much stacked against him as looked after children have the poorest outcomes of alland throw in a physical disability too.

However the questions shouldn't be "he can do it so why shouldn't we expect the rest to"but "what made his ability to achieve such an unusual event"

Unless you're wanting to claim that the vast majority of looked after children are just lazy as that seems to be the main point of your argument

scampiandchips1 · 09/12/2017 20:22

User149
I'm not really sure why are you pushing back so much on ex military but let's agree to disagree as I do believe they are worthy of benefits for so many reasons, but I don't really feel the need to justify it

scampiandchips1 · 09/12/2017 20:33

Iamyourequal and User149

How can you even compare the life we have to the life people during the first and second world war would have had? I'm not talking about people with abusive parents etc, just the actual state of the country at the time. Can you imagine how it must have felt to have to turn off your lights in case you were bombed?! Living in fear everyday! Having to go off to war at age 16 not knowing if you would come back. Having to live off rations.

Do you think those generations were handed any benefits like our generation has? Overall we've got it pretty good compared to them, yet people still sit there feeling sorry for themselves.

We are really lucky to have electricity, toilets, clean water, sanitation, showers, baths, heating etc. Generations before us didn't and many countries still don't have any of these, and I bet as a nation we complain a lot more than they do.

user1492877024 · 09/12/2017 20:41

scampiandchips1

Sorry? What does pushing back on the military mean? You made several statements, I challenged them, and as I thought, you are unable to defend those statements. Please try critical thinking. It's OK, you're not the first, I keep getting told how I should be grateful for those defending my freedom, keeping me safe, serving the country (yawn) yet, whenever I question this, no one can provide me with a suitable answer. Believe it or not, I am not part of the anti war movement. I do support our military, but please don't tell me our military are anything other than self serving. Surely, you're not that naive. This is 2017, not 1917.

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