To think that bit is impossible to live off of benefits?

[Rolf38]

So Universal Credit rates are £498.89 an adult couple over the age of 25. This is meant to last them one whole month. So £250 per adult which works out at about £60 per week or just £8.57 per day.

How is someone meant to buy food, pay their bills and maintain a jobsearch at these rates?

I understand that some may think that by setting benefits at a low rate, there will be a greater incentive for recipients to return to work. This I understand and agree with to a point.

Surely though that danger of setting benefit rates too low is that it has the opposite effect. Claimants may reun the risk of getting in to debt, depression and lose the desire to maintain an active job search, along with any ambitions and aspirations they ever had.

Is met ting benefit rates too low a precursor to the increase of long term benefit claimants, simply by affording claimants less resources and willpower to maintain their job search?

After all, say if have been unemployed fir or three months. In this time, you have been so cash strapped that you haven't even been able to go to the cinema or meet an old friend, as bills and increasing debts have taken priority.

Without just a bit of enjoyment to boost morale, how less determined would a claimant be to give their job search their all as they would be if they could take their mind off of it for a bit.

For the couples payment too, I wouldn't be surprised if such a low payment to sustain two adults for a month may cause friction in the relationship, adding further restrictions to morale and job search.

Of course taxpayers money should be treated with the utmost respect.

However, is keeping benefit rates at such a low level proving more costly in the long run?

Why not add an incentive for job search for claimants? Increase UC payments by 10% for those who continually do all they can for their job search over a sustained period (say three months).

Such an increase, just form he most committed in their job search, would act as a continued incentive for the most determined to find work quicker (thus reducing long-term burdens on the taxpayers). Restricting an enhanced payment to just the most committed would also ensure that those not committed to athe or jobsearch and envisage a long-term existence on benefits find that this, beyond subsidence level, is not sustainable.

If you are doing everything you can in your jobsearch, why should you be unable to afford very basic enjoyments (even on a very occasional basis)? Why are those who put in the effort, in testing times, not differentiated from those who show no desire to come off benefits.

Perhaps in addition to sanctioning claimants who do not fulfill their commitments, the government should do more to help and reward the positive attitude to do all they can to get back to work.

Education is already abundant and clearly not working for many. It can only do so much and teachers are expected to do the job of parents more and more. The bulk of attitudes and morals come from the child's main role models i.e. parents.

01/12/2017 20:02 Thebluedog

"You can also claim 70% of your childcare to enable you to work. So anyone saying they can’t work because they can’t afford childcare is rubbish too."
Our childcare costs are £910 a week, if we were claiming tax credits to pay for them we would receive £210 that the maximum amount payable to anyone. That's a shortfall of £710.
So yes it can be impossible to afford childcare.

Sorry I forgot our £114 a week discount for three year olds.

So £596 a week total.

Ahh £700 and £586 , am so annoyed I can't add up.

Childcare costs can absolutely be prohibitive to many, especially if you have more than 1 child.

MyDcAreMarvel - your children won't be that young forever. And once they start school childcare is cheaper. (I spend all my wages in child care... at the time it seemed madness, 10 years later it's paid off because I have worked my way up the pay ladder.)
And often a child minder is cheaper than nursery & you can keep them once your children start school.
There is always a way into working if you want to.

We can afford the childcare my dh is a higher earner. However if he earned minimum wage there is no way he could afford to work.
The childcare includes wrap around for school age dc. We can't use a childminder or a nanny due to dc disabilities.

There really wouldn't be a way of working if my dh was bringing home £300 a week minimum wage. £210 a week is not enough for low income families , childcare should be paid in full.

I left school 30 years ago with no qualifications because school just did not interest me and tbh not very bright! Most of my working life I have done retail jobs and since the age of 16 I have never been out of work! I had my dc in my late 30s and went back part-time I now clean for a living to contribute towards some of the bills! There are jobs out there but most people would think cleaning was beneath them! I learnt from my parents if you want something you work for it!!

That's nice for you Booie.

It's lucky you were blessed with good physical and mental health, healthy children and a supportive partner and helpful parents. Not everyone is.

I left school with great GCSEs. My teachers expected me to achieve a lot. Sadly, shit happens and things don't always work out as you expect them to.

Oh, and there are very few people who believe cleaning is below them. I've certainly never met any.

It's not necessarily always about job or no job, more about whether that job pays enough to cover all the bills. Sometimes they don't and many people rely on government support to help them. that support has been dwindling for some years now but wages haven't grown to bridge the gap.

And often a child minder is cheaper than nursery & you can keep them once your children start school. There is always a way into working if you want to

You can only keep a childminder once your children are in school if said childminder is willing to do school runs. It is not a given.

And no, there isn’t always a way. I live in an urban area well-served by public transport and available childcare. But as a single parent of 3, I only make it work ‘cos I have a car and breakfast/after school clubs. At one point, I had 2 children in 2 schools a mile and a half apart, and the third child in a nursery. It worked cos I could traverse the distances by car and earned enough to pay an early opening charge at the nursery. Couldn’t have done it on foot or public transport, it simply wouldn’t have added up. No childminder would do the school run for me at a price I could afford (one wanted £30 per day for me to drop off at 7:45 for her to drop them at 8!). At minimum wage, it would never have happened.

Well read my posts then you will see. Not my problem you read my posts and assumed I included disabled etc in my the benefit scum. I don't and have made it clear that I support local community's by voulenteer at a nursing to help enrich lives.
Love that my post is being read else where to and people actually have it saved. Also it is clear to see those people on here that pay the high tax bracket as they actually have some empathy of having such large tax bills and how infuriating it is.

Perhaps vouchers should be for those identified by relevant agencies as making poor choices/decisions with respect to their children

Might as well have people wearing some kind of ‘on benefits’ identifying badge, eh?

Vouchers would simply be sold for cash for those who truly struggle. Where there is a will, there is a way.

I also struggle to understand why we think we can dictate how people manage their money. We all have different priorities. Thousands of functioning adults are up to their ears in debt and their actions impact on how their children live. But because they don’t claim benefits, they are not on society’s radar.

frequency I was lucky that was up until 4 years ago when my dad had a kidney transplant, my mum was diagnosed with cancer then lost my dad a year later and 19 days after that nearly lost my 6 year old child to a undiagnosed lifelong illness and my mum's cancer has returned with not a very good diagnosis! Yes people need benefits but SOME people cheat the system. Oh and by the way I have met many people who look down on people.

I'd be against vouchers unless they were for healthy extras.

When DD was young, you could get healthy start vouchers for milk, veg, cheese and fruit but they were in addition to any benefits you received.

I also received an extra £15 income support per week for going to college to complete an employment skills course and access course. I was a bit dubious at time re the employment skills course as I'd just finished MAT leave from a fairly decent job I'd had leave for reasons beyond my control, so I was employable but it would make sense for really young parents or parents who've never worked full time.

Do they still do those? I used to be able to get a huge back of veg and one of fruit for only £3 from a local community center with mine (the voucher covered the other £5) The veg was £3 and the fruit £5. It was more than enough for a week for both of us.

I'm sorry to hear that Booie. I hope your child is doing better now.

You must be able to understand, though, that everyone's circumstances are different?

Frequency Totally get it.

Then I'm not understanding the judgement.

I didn't fulfil my full potential because my father was an alcoholic, my mother was too afraid to leave him or protect me from his drunken, violent tantrums. I left school to go on to an apprenticeship instead of college because I viewed it as a quicker escape to college then uni.

There have been numerous times in my life I've had to rely on benefits despite wanting to work and numerous times I've missed opportunities or had to give up good jobs due to circumstances beyond my control. My LL selling my house while I was on MAT leave, for example, leaving me unable to afford rent, a new baby and a deposit on a new home forcing me to leave the city I'd fled to away from my father and back in with my parents. Luckily, he was sober by that time and ashamed of the past.

I had to leave my last job when DD had a mental breakdown. I worked in a small cafe/wine bar. Evening and weekend child care for suicidal teenagers does not exist. As all of my experience is in the service industry, I can't find any work with hours that enable to be at home when DD is.

I am physically and mentally capable of working full time but unable to due to circumstances I can't control and thus rely on benefits. Though I do work from home doing freelance writing, it doesn't earn anywhere near what I am capable of or enough to survive on without benefits topping up my meagre income.

To an outsider, I am feckless, living on tax credits and housing benefits despite being physically able to work. I don't announce DD's issues to strangers at the council tax office or school gates.

You have no idea what another person has lived through or is living through. To judge them because you could always work despite having your own issues, is abhorrent.

Universal Credit, when it comes to my area, will affect me badly. I will have no choice but to choose between my child or basic essentials. I will not survive on what we have now if my WTC are taken away in favour of UC.

I'd been avoiding posting my personal circumstances as I don't see why I should justify my life to strangers on the interwebs but all these "I've always worked despite X,Y, Z, so others should too." posts are really getting to me.

Most people want to work, not all can, even those who appear as if they can.

Frequency

And Frequancy your circumstances at times are exactly what the benefits system was devised for. It's not an equal life and sometimes circumstances can be shit for what of a better term.

Some people for whatever reason can rise way above that because they got a lucky break or because their personality and character were shaped differently. I can think of a couple of very successful people who left such childhoods and raced to the top of their field. They are neither easy to work with or for.
Some people never recover and live a life of struggle.....my client for example who is still severely traumatised physically and especially mentally by her horrendously abusive childhood. She worked briefly until becoming a mother at which point the lack of safeguarding she experienced as a child hit home well and truly. I doubt she will ever work again. Her childhood was not one anyone should experience.

Most who have difficult childhoods will they escape as quickly as they can and take any job possible and survive. Money might not be great but is an independence away from the alcoholic (or otherwise abusive) parenting.

Not surprisingly people who leave such childhoods often do struggle on and off financially. The last thing they are is feckless or scroungers though....they live their lives as best they can and claim benefits when they need to. I have no issue with that.

I don't think it's impossible for everyone on benefits to live off them, but as with so many things in life, the devil is in the detail. I don't think JSA is enough to live off, for instance.

I do agree however that there is a fine balance to be struck between benefits paying enough to those that need them to cover their basic living needs without having to resort to food banks or turning the heating off so they can afford to eat, and ensuring it still pays those that can work to do so. Once you factor in the free prescriptions/dentistry/eye tests/school meals/Housing Benefit/Council Tax benefit etc for non working parents on Income Support, their total income is actually comparable to that of some low income working families who are really struggling. That isn't right, clearly.

I do agree that Universal Credit is a god-awful mess and lots of vulnerable people are going to suffer under it, which none of us should be happy about.

The question needs to be asked - If someone cannot live off benefits, and they are fit and healthy, why not get a job? Bearing in mind lots of jobs pay minimum wage so they would be no better off working.

How much richer wouldthe UK be if we didn’t have to fund the families who can work but choose not to?

Why doesn’t everyone give up work and live off benefits and have their housing paid for them?

If everyone jacked their jobs in and claimed benefits how long would the benefit system last?

Why don't you go first Darles if it's such an attractive option?