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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be surprised that M&S has a section on their website for Modest Clothing?

934 replies

Scabbersley · 29/11/2017 09:07

here

What's that all about then? Why does it warrant its own category?

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paxillin · 01/12/2017 00:23

Maybe only intelligent women understand why this is a worrying trend

I could answer, but it would break The Talk Guidelines. The second word would be "off".

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 01/12/2017 00:54

Come up with a new name for it or end the thread

An alternative name was offered "Fuller coverage clothing" - nothing wrong with that. Factual and non- judgemental.

I do not understand the determination of certain posters to hold on to and defend the loaded term.

AstridWhite · 01/12/2017 05:20

The gold coloured 'bird' masks are really only worn by women of a certain generation now. You still see women over 60 wearing them in countries where covering fully is the norm, but no self respecting young fashionista would be seen dead in one.

It's the Muslim equivalent of the Granny Perm. Grin

HereBeFuckery · 01/12/2017 05:47

Thing is, though, it could still come up under 'modest' as a search term if they used modest in the meta data of the page, rather than having to call it that.

Using modest to title the page has made a value judgement, and that's wrong. They could, if they knew anything about web design, have their cake and eat it.

fromthebreach · 01/12/2017 07:25

There must be people here who work for M&S. Please, someone let them know that they should at least consider renaming it...and hire a decent web designer so that they still pick up search engine traffic.

stealthemoon · 01/12/2017 07:27

Maybe only intelligent women understand why this is a worrying trend 

pp s are intelligent enough to keep the discussion balanced on a sensitive subject op

Oh and opposite for intelligent = stupid, uneducated, foolish, idiotic

May be you should'nt use the term intelligent

NoelCowardsDressingGown · 01/12/2017 07:39

I think there are different forms of intelligence, however those who base their life decisions on other people's way of thinking - say a religion/doctrine or cult -don't exactly strike me as original thinkers.

Have they created a slutty section yet?

therealposieparker · 01/12/2017 07:51

I'm off to buy some "not too fat" tights and a nice "I'm a slaaaaaag" bra this morning.

NoelCowardsDressingGown · 01/12/2017 07:54

Peephole Posie? Grin

AnnaMagdalene · 01/12/2017 08:21

Maybe only intelligent women understand why this is a worrying trend

Well, I've got a degree from an elite university and am completely unphased a) by the rise of a trend termed 'modest fashion' and b) that a major high street retailer uses this to showcase a relatively 'modest' number of the clothes in their very large range of stock.

I imagine they welcome any publicity this thread has generated. It is, after all, free advertising, A significant of the women who have come to this thread have said that they find these clothes attractive and useful and would consider buying them.

I think some of the generalisations made about religion, patriarchy, fashion, language and women's choices very sweeping.

I suppose the one thing that I do wonder is how many of those contributors who feel offended and/or threatened by this small range of clothing, know women who - for reasons of faith - opt to wear clothes that expose very little skin.

I work in a multi-cultural city and a number of my female colleagues do wear clothing of this type. They are my friends and I like and respect them just as much that I enjoy the company of those colleagues who will undo a shirt button or two, or wear a keen length skirt. I also have one or two male colleagues whose appearance is influenced by their faith. (Many Muslims are rather more likely to have beards though as with the hijab, it's partly about culture and there seems to be relatively little said by the Prophet.) It seems to me that on so many important levels, my religiously observant colleagues are the same as secular ones. (We talk about children, sport, holidays, work-related gossip.) Perhaps, despite the jokes we share they are a little more serious and reflective on some subjects and may rate the importance of extended family/community more highly. But for me that's a plus.

I am more frightened of Islamophobia than Islam. I don't feel threatened by a major retailer showcasing a few longer skirts and polo-necked and describing them as 'modest'. I understand that there may be some people who feel the existence of these garments could mean that it's less easy for them to wear lycra crop tops.

But I do think that in the UK lycra crop tops and short skirts are going to be co-existing with longer, looser outfits. Some men are going to be walking about shaven and bare-chested and with low slung jeans. Others will be wearing long tunics and baggy trousers. That's my world and I'm comfortable with it.

NoelCowardsDressingGown · 01/12/2017 08:43

Well I also have a degree from an elite university but refrained from mentioning it until now as, well, it felt immodest...

Designating a clothes range with such an emotive description will of course create a reaction. That word creates a dichotomy in itself - everyone with an active brain cell can find clothing to their taste, but to start categorising it is of course going to create a discussion. Namely if I'm not buying "modest" clothing, what am I buying then? Name that elephant in the room 🐘, go on.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 01/12/2017 08:55

I am more frightened of Islamophobia than Islam. I don't feel threatened by a major retailer showcasing a few longer skirts and polo-necked and describing them as 'modest'

This has nothing to do with Islam or Islamaphobia.

I understand that there may be some people who feel the existence of these garments could mean that it's less easy for them to wear lycra crop tops

If that is what you are taking from those who are objecting to this loaded term then I think you have missed the point.

AnnaMagdalene · 01/12/2017 08:56

I am more offended by the labelling and shelving in the childrens section of my local library. Some books are labelled 'Sugar and Spice, 'Cupcakes and Candy,' 'Mates and Dates'. Others are labelled 'Books for Boys.'

I am much much more concerned about what seems a near-universal trend in gendered branding for children right across the UK in clothing, footwear, toys, bicycles - you name it.

Perhaps that's something more important for Mumsnetters to consider? The trouble is it's huge and it's everywhere. So it's easier to fret and fume about a few polo-necks and skirts in just one shop.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 01/12/2017 09:00

Perhaps that's something more important for Mumsnetters to consider? The trouble is it's huge and it's everywhere

There are countless threads on this sort of thing.

So it's easier to fret and fume about a few polo-necks and skirts in just one shop

Well aside from the fact it is entirely possible to be worried by more than 1 thing that is a ridiculous minimising of the issue.

therealposieparker · 01/12/2017 09:03

If women don't understand the problem of value judgements based upon everyday attire I'm not sure anyone can help them.

Fekko · 01/12/2017 09:03

I have a degree from a meh uni, one from a very highly rated one and a post grad from a very immodest uni. But I'm far too modest to discuss my other qualifications.

I saw it more as a women's rights thing than a religious thing - who said it was aimed at mualims anyway? It wasn't all that long ago there was often anti Israel protests outside the m&s in Marble Arch.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 01/12/2017 09:04

I would suggest the problem with your library is your library.

I have never seen a library or bookshop categorise books in that way. This thread on the other hand is about one of the biggest and best known retailers in the UK- not one poster's local library.

Fekko · 01/12/2017 09:05

Our local library categorises kids books by age and subject. Fiction is alphabetical.

NoelCowardsDressingGown · 01/12/2017 09:06

Seems you've gone off on a massive tangent there AnnaM, are you still addressing the thread?

AnnaMagdalene · 01/12/2017 09:17

I was broadening the discussion to talking about the marketing/promotion of unhelpful stereotypes and the way this may circumscribe choices , influencing people in how they determine what appropriate male and female behaviour is.

But perhaps if what one busy library does doesn't matter that much - what one popular retailer's choices are also relatively insignificant.

Rebeccaslicker · 01/12/2017 09:24

Ooh are we counting degrees and qualifications now? I can play that game really really well 🙄

I just don't see why it's necessary to name the range. If anyone wants a long sleeved polo neck, it's not hard to find online or in a store.

As I said upthread, I will stop finding this so offensive when men also have a "modesty section".

ArcheryAnnie · 01/12/2017 09:26

With regards to the word 'modest', I am sure if it was instead called 'covered' there would be just as much uproar 'are they saying we are uncovered?!'

Sanjee not from me. I object to "modest" as it's a value-laden term. "Covered" is just descriptive. "Modest" gets some women bullied for their "immodesty" when they don't conform to other people's notion of what is modest. For M&S to put forward a very specific idea of "modest" is really dangerous, IMO.

I cover up, but I'd still be as modest if I showed my knees. (As I said upthread, I don't think anyone apart from my ex-husband and my doctor have seen my knees since about 1985.)

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 01/12/2017 09:26

I was broadening the discussion to talking about the marketing/promotion of unhelpful stereotypes and the way this may circumscribe choices , influencing people in how they determine what appropriate male and female behaviour is

Really? It looked more like a diversionary tactic, given the subject you mentioned is frequently discussed and is not relevant to this thread which only applies to women's clothes, and at the same trying to minimise and trivialise the point being discussed.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 01/12/2017 09:30

I was broadening the discussion to talking about the marketing/promotion of unhelpful stereotypes

Marketing clothes as "modest" is promoting an unhelpful stereotype.

Scabbersley · 01/12/2017 09:31

Marketing clothes as "modest" is promoting an unhelpful stereotype.

I'd be very surprised if anyone can't understand this.

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