School and religion

[ThisLittleKitty]

Is it normal for a school (not a faith school) to teach children about Jesus? My son came home today telling me he had been told about "baby Jesus" and how he was "born on Christmas Day" I'm a little surprised by this as didn't realise the school would be saying this kind of thing. It's a very diverse school in south east london so many religions and we are not a religious family. Aibu to think this is not right?

Bring it up with them when you go in to talk about your child’s behaviour...

You're being silly OP nothing wrong in learning about other religions. I did R.E in school learnt bout judaism, budhism, Sikhism and all sorts of other religions and their gods and places of worship, it was all fascinating stuff.

IF he was asked/forced to practice the religion then you'd complain. I don't think taking part in the nativity play is complulsory either, so don't worry about Christmas if you're that strongly against it

I think it is generally accepted as historical fact that Jesus existed. Different religions have different beliefs about who he was and his significance ( from memory, correct me if I'm wrong, Christianity-the Messiah & son of God, Islam- a prophet, Judaism- opinion differs but he is often regarded as a teacher).
It sounds like they are teaching your child the Christmas story

Behold the man who walked on water - Issac Newton, born 25th December. After all, he explained gravity to the world, so he amended his explanation like politicians do to suit themselves so that he alone could walk on water.

They will teach Christianity in the same way as they teach Islam, Judaism etc etc. Though likely to be a bit more Christian content compared to the other religions.

We are not religious at all but I do think it's important that they grow up with an awareness that some people believe in different things and what some of those things are.

We just tell our kids that it's a story that some people believe is true, but we don't. So it's the story of baby Jesus, much like Cinderella is a story or the 3 little pigs is a story, not an actual news report type thing.

It is a legal requirement in England that the school have a broadly Christian service at least once a week and teach about Christianity.

That’s a normal and logical result of the fact that the Church of England is a legally established state religion. In cities a lot of schools skimp on it or illegally ignore it. In the countryside it is seen as the way it has always been.

Did you think you were living in the USA ? Or have you read too many liberal newspapers ?

I am an atheist but I think children need to understand the basics of Christianity because it forms a part of our culture. How will they understand subjects like history, literature and art if they don't understand the religious ideas behind so much of it? I doubt that the school will be teaching it as fact, but small children don't pick up on the subtlety of different beliefs. My dd (4) has been talking about baby jesus in the context of the nativity play, I don't think this is a problem. It's just a story as far as I am concerned, albeit one which has had a major impact on the course of history. I don't expect her to grow up believing in santa Claus, the tooth fairy or any of the other characters she reads about in books either.

Its really sad to have to teach your DC that a few odd teachers are brainwashed (and what that means). Really degrades any respect we should have for the profession.

I have no problem my DC learning about the myths and legends of our culture, santa, fairies, jesus, zeus, thor etc, they are all fun but once you get a rouge fundamentalist saying any of them are true it steps over an imaginary line (pun intended).

In a modern secular 21st century country we shouldn't have to bother children with why some teachers are a bit la la closed mind.

He won’t have talked about Ramadan and Eid because they haven’t happened whilst he is at school yet, given he would have started year one in September.

And don’t worry, he will be taught about the Big Bang as fact and it’s up to him to sort our fact from fiction.

Our girl in P1 had a dragon who visited overnight, left notes for the children and glitter foot prints the whole lot. So far she’s made it to 8 without being brainwashed about dragons.

Or, given the issues with how terrible schools are, maybe just do everyone a favour and home school.

Surely you just say that you don't believe which is why you don't celebrate Christmas.

My dc are year 2 and know that some people believe and some don't. It's not complicated. Schools in a Christian Country teach Christian beliefs and if you want them to believe something else then you can talk about it at home.

I struggle with this too. My daughter is at a C of E school (before anyone jumps on this all the schools near me are C of E!) she loves learning about God and Jesus. Her dad is atheist, I'm just religiously unconvinced. I would prefer it to have been a non C of E school but didn't really have a choice in our area. What I struggle with is how factual it sits with them at that age. I always say to her "but not everyone believes in it daddy doesn't and she says "I want to believe in it because it's true!" I understand the connotations around Christmas of course but it's all year around at our school and given how "factual" she accepts it as I do wonder what will happen when they move on to other religions. In some ways I think the nativity etc are all very cute but being told "God is with you at all times"by a 4 year old is a bit much!

Oh wow just realised same OP as other school posts. You really don't like it do you. I'd spend less time on here and more time sorting things out!

thefairyfellersmasterstroke
Do you really not know the UK has a state religion? It's CofE. The monarch is the Head of State and the Church of England and (IIRC) Defender of the Faith.

FFS
It is WRONG to teach religious supposition as FACT. Why do so many MNers refuse to accept that?

This, 100%
I cannot believe most of the replies.

I grew up in a Christian country where education is, nevertheless, totally secular, so it was also a shock to me.
By the way, I am not at all opposed to religion ( all religions ) being taught as beliefs, traditions, culture, etc, but what really pisses me off is when is taught as a fact.

Again, I have no problem with DS being told that Jesus was born at Christmas, but it usually does not end there, as it always follows that he is the son of God.

My son came home the other day and said that 'the rainbow is God's way to show us his presence'
Erm, no.

Anyway, back to your question re. how to deal with it - we just keep repeating that many people believe in God/s, but that we do not. And that he can decide himself.

Actually, it's quite important for DC to have a grounding in all the basic mythologies, whether there are still people who take them seriously or not. The Greek, Roman and Norse deities and myths have been as big an influence on contemporary European culture as the Abrahamic ones.

I've always told DS that there are different beliefs and different sets of mythology, and that I have no time for any of the beliefs but the key thing is to be polite to other people who do believe in one or another myth systems (unless they are being rude to you.) RE has consistently been his worst subject at school, despite me telling him that it's worth knowing the stories... but at least when he goes into Year 9 he can drop it as a subject, because it's not an important one.

Do you really not know the UK has a state religion?
Its just left over from history, thankfully the UK long ago stopped believing in any particular religion.

I tackle it in a similar way to reanimated this gets easier as they get older. When they are younger dc can be very certain in their views and also inclined to place a lot of weight on what their teacher says. Dd went through a religious phase 6-7, she grew out of it. I have known other friends dc do the same. It is irritating but can be overcome gently.

Mind you I am a pedant and have explained in reality Jesus wasn't actually born on xmas day it was picked as a good time because there was already a festival that happened around that time.

Am in the US - I quite like that they leave teaching about religion until kids are a bit older, then they teach it as part of social studies or history.

DD2 is 14 and studying World History. They are covering all the major religions in the context of the historical events and civilisations within which they developed.

They did cover a few religions briefly in middle school but not particularly deeply. I asked my 12yo DS today how much he knew of the Christmas story and all he really knew was that Jesus was born that day.

on topic but off topic but what Christmas carol has the line "was born on Christmas Day"?

found it

could they be practicing this popular song?

I'm an atheist RS teacher ... Jesus ' (who was a real person by the way so was born at some point).

That old canard? The evidence of the existence of a person called Jesus appears only in partisan literature which unerringly refers to itself for source material. I am surprised that someone without a faith who teaches this stuff has fallen for the 'historical person' myth.

That apart, I have some sympathy for the argument that amongst more superstitious times (including ours, historically) culture has been largely based on religion. The principal reason for religion's influence on culture is because it has imposed systems of laws. Religious art has always been a huge propaganda tool, often with the active encouragement of the religious hierarchy (see e.g. the Council of Trent or the training of South American artists by the Conquistadores to paint Catholic themes), and has been the subject of religious veto in the form of censorship, so it too falls within laws.

Accordingly, I simply do not understand the persistence of religion on the national curriculum while the teaching of the actual, living basis of our contemporary culture - laws and civic duties - is regarded almost as a pariah subject. Religion is an occasionally poignant backdrop to what we now are - like a photo of an ex-lover one once could not bear to be apart from - we need to move on and understand who we are now.

So OP. It is excellent learning for your child to know that trusted people can hold diverse opinions without having to insult or dislike each other (cf, sometimes, Mumsnet). Just have the conversation about what you believe and why.

I honestly don't understand why people don't get the distinction between learning about different faiths and being taught that one faith is fact. It seems perfectly straightforward to me!

I honestly don't understand why people don't get the distinction between learning about different faiths and being taught that one faith is fact.

I'm not so sure that is the issue in this thread as the fact that the OP seems to have persistent and ongoing issues with the school and we are all expected to take a 5 yr old's translation of a lesson as gospel.

Kids work out what is true or not by themselves anyway
Unfortunately I'm not sure about that. Just think of all the religious adults who are convinced their religion is the truth because they've been brought up in very religious environments. Besides, children should not have to work out which things they're taught, in school of all places, is bullshit or not. Theories and beliefs should be clearly taught as such, even if that means the teachers have to labour the point that it's just what some people believe, it's not fact.