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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

School and religion

316 replies

ThisLittleKitty · 28/11/2017 23:06

Is it normal for a school (not a faith school) to teach children about Jesus? My son came home today telling me he had been told about "baby Jesus" and how he was "born on Christmas Day" I'm a little surprised by this as didn't realise the school would be saying this kind of thing. It's a very diverse school in south east london so many religions and we are not a religious family. Aibu to think this is not right?

OP posts:
Barbie222 · 07/12/2017 13:52

Better start planning now for how you’ll handle the tooth fairy. It might be a bit late for Santa now.

ScruffbagsRUs · 07/12/2017 13:56

My DD came home when in primary 1 and said that Jesus was born on Xmas day. I answered her that we celebrated the 25th December as that's when Isaac Newton was born and we decorate a tree, to celebrate one of the of the most prominent scientists that ever lived, and give presents to each other as a token of kindness. I then told her about IN, what he was famous for and more.

She said that celebrating IN's birthday was far better than some bloke called Jesus.

Looneytune253 · 07/12/2017 14:00

You’re being very closed minded. Do you celebrate Christmas? I would imagine the chatter between his little friends will be very Christmas orientated at the moment and Christmas crafts in full swing. How do you know Jesus wasn’t born on Christmas Day? It’s not really a lie, it’s a real story just elaborated a bit. Can’t believe anyone would strongly object to their school talking about why we celebrate Christmas. Are they doing a nativity this year? If so, you’re in for a shock!!

QuizzlyBear · 07/12/2017 14:15

I have the same reservations. My sons went to a state primary and have been taught Christianity as fact, which really bothers me - teach it (and other religions) in RE, but that's the place for it.

We tell kids that what we teach them at school is facts, based on evidence. Religion simply has no place in that setting.

Luckily my youngest has a strong mind of his own and has often questioned the teachings; 'you say Jesus was born at Christmas? Then why were there young animals in the barn? That suggests springtime. Also, what did they base Mary's virgin birth on? Her word? Hmmmm'.

He's ten and he's got it worked out 😂

BertrandRussell · 07/12/2017 14:22

This is another of those threads where Christians willfully refuse to understand that there is a difference being taught about different religions (RE and all good and useful) and being taught to pray and that God is real (indoctrination and all bad and not useful).

debbs77 · 07/12/2017 14:26

Normal and annoying

dameofdilemma · 07/12/2017 14:28

Easter and Christmas always result in some religious information in the classroom, however 'secular' the school.

I just wish it didn't raise so many awkward questions in my 5 yr old. How did Jesus die on the cross and why didn't he run away or fight back?
Did the nails hurt?
Why can't granddad come back to life like Jesus? If I go to church will granddad come back for Christmas?
Is the bible a fact or fiction book?

At least for Diwali it was just making nice candle holders.

TeenTimesTwo · 07/12/2017 14:31

OP, if you want to opt out, then fine.
But you probably can't pick and choose, so you will be opting out of

  • nativity & all future Christmas shows
  • making Christmas & Easter cards

Why not just say, Yes, Christians celebrate the birth of Jesus on 25th Dec as they don't know when he was really born. They believe he was the son of God and that's why they celebrate Christmas. However I don't believe that, which is why we just do the fun bits of Christmas to cheer up winter, like presents and seeing family.

BertrandRussell · 07/12/2017 14:32

"Can’t believe anyone would strongly object to their school talking about why we celebrate Christmas"

You know something? I'm pretty sure nobody is objecting to the school talking about why Christmas is celebrated.......

madcatwoman61 · 07/12/2017 14:33

Everybody on mumsnet seems to get terribly upset when their children are told that Santa does not exist, and equally upset when their children are told Jesus does exist - discuss!

BertrandRussell · 07/12/2017 14:37

"Why not just say, Yes, Christians celebrate the birth of Jesus on 25th Dec as they don't know when he was really born. They believe he was the son of God and that's why they celebrate Christmas. People who aren't Christians don't believe that but lots of them still celebrate Christmas to cheer up winter, to share presents and to see family "

I changed it a bit to sonething the school should be saying. It's not hard.

BertrandRussell · 07/12/2017 14:39

"Everybody on mumsnet seems to get terribly upset when their children are told that Santa does not exist, and equally upset when their children are told Jesus does exist - discuss!"

Oh, I'm not rising to that one- Christians get ever so upset if Jesus and Santa appear on the same page, never mind the same sentence!

DioneTheDiabolist · 07/12/2017 14:44

The child is 5, we don't know that he wasn't told "Christians believe...". But I think that this may be one of those threads where Bert will preach from her soapbox about the evils of people who don't do stuff like what she does.Grin

DarlesChickens61 · 07/12/2017 14:44

Everybody on mumsnet seems to get terribly upset when their children are told that Santa does not exist, and equally upset when their children are told Jesus does exist

This ^^

Makes me wonder how certain parents react when their child is given info about other religions - as per syllabus. Do they go into school and rant about topics being discussed that are not factual? Do they know about every religion and it’s teachings??

Let’s face it no school expects students to believe every facet of various religions.

BUT If parents see fit to celebrate varying religious elements at least they should allow their children to be taught about why religious factors are celebrated. They can make their own minds up as they consolidate the facts ( or fiction) for themselves.

BertrandRussell · 07/12/2017 14:48

"Makes me wonder how certain parents react when their child is given info about other religions - as per syllabus. Do they go into school and rant about topics being discussed that are not factual? Do they know about every religion and it’s teachings??"

Do you grasp the difference between being taught about something and being taught something as fact?

BertrandRussell · 07/12/2017 14:50

Don't pretend to be stupid, Dione. You know perfectly well that this is a serious issue for many people.

thatcatpidgeon · 07/12/2017 15:01

I've had this in two schools - there is a thing called 'open the book' where Christians come in an talk about this nonsense like it is fact. I find this really offensive and misguided.

Thankfully both of my kids are quite bright and we explain that some people believe things, even grown ups and if they want to believe it and it doesn't hurt anyone then that is their choice and we should respect it. However I do disagree with the 'this is fact' rather than 'some people believe' or even 'We believe'.

I think the classic old saying 'Religion is like a penis. It's fine to have one and it's fine to be proud of it, but please don't whip it out in public and start waving it around... and PLEASE don't try to shove it down my child's throat" is very appropriate in this context. I hope that as society moves on this ridiculous and outdated idea of teaching religion as fact will die out - however for now it is something that happens in most state schools in the UK, so making sure it is discussed at home too is key.

InDubiousBattle · 07/12/2017 15:04

I was on the bus yesterday when I heard a little girl (school age but still little)say that we 'do Christmas because it's Santa's birthday'. Would that be preferable? I am an atheist, my ds (3, almost 4)cam home from pre school last week and talked about Christmas and the baby Jesus- I assumed that they had been talking about the nativity and I'm fine about it.

thatcatpidgeon · 07/12/2017 15:04

Also as I said - I have no problem with being taught about all the things people around the world believe as it is part of world culture and history - but they shouldn't teach it as fact (which they categorically do as I have previously complained to the headteacher about it - and whilst he 'understood' my objection there was nothing he could to but offer us to opt out).

DarlesChickens61 · 07/12/2017 15:06

Do you grasp the difference between being taught about something and being taught something as fact?

Is religion being taught as ‘fact’? Or is it info shared? You decide...

RestingGrinchFace · 07/12/2017 15:08

Um well the story of nativity is the basics of Christmas so yes, I would expect them the teach children about Jesus if they do Christmas (which let's face it would be a bit sad if they didn't do it). So long as they aren't telling them that Jesus is the son of god or that he died for their sins they aren't really teaching religion per se but rather Christian mythology.

InDubiousBattle · 07/12/2017 15:21

Scruffbags but the lights, trees, carols, brass bands and gifts etc aren't, in fact, to celebrate the both of Is sac Newton though are they? Are you content to have your dd to misunderstand this? Or did you mean more of a Royal 'we', as in 'our family' rather than 'we as a country'.

BertrandRussell · 07/12/2017 15:30

"Is religion being taught as ‘fact’? Or is it info shared? You decide..."

I don't have to decide. In some schools they do one and in some they do the other. The second is fine-the first not fine.

PersianCatLady · 07/12/2017 15:35

I don't believe in any religious things because other than as stories that may or may not be partially true.

I do believe in scientific fact and I respect the idea of behaving towards others in the way that i would like them to treat me as well as trying to do more good deeds than bad deeds.

Because of the way i feel, Christmas is not a big thing for me. I feel that I am being a hypocrite by celebrating it so I see my parents on the actual day and give a few cards to people I know but I write something personal in them.

When my son was little, I did the whole Father Christmas thing but he spends most of the time out with his friends.

I do believe that schools should talk about religion and I think that you should be pleased that your son is taking such a interest.

Rather than withdraw him from RE lessons why don't you talk to your child's tszcher abouf ghd school's RE policy.

I seriously doubt that he was told the Christmas story as fact. A six year girl who I help with maths and other homework often tells me the most outrageous things that her teacher had supposedly said but I did speak to her teachers I collected her and found out that the girl had not told me everything that had happened.

Also are you planning on celebrating Christmas at home at all?

InternetHoopJumper · 07/12/2017 19:02

I hope the posters who are harping on about Christmas traditions realize that the festivities are Pagan in origin. Early Christians didn't even celebrate it. Heck, Christinity is not even the oldest religion and Pagan traditions are part of the history too.
Do schools teach kids about that? Ofcourse not, god forbid (pun fully intended) that teacher actually place Christmas traditions in the historical contexts where they belong.
Furthermore, does the bible even contain the official birthday of Jesus (assuming the guy even existsed)? I thought that was decided later.