To think if a mum is happy to leave 2 kids alone at a table the restaurant staff should leave them alone

[Kitsandkids]

Currently in a family friendly restaurant. A mum has taken a toddler to the toilet leaving 2 children aged anywhere between 5 and 8, at a guess, sitting at the table. They are not being rowdy, they are not crying, they are just sitting quietly. But when a waitress came over with their food she got annoyed that they are alone and has left another staff member standing next to the table. So now they are sitting in awkward silence waiting for mum to return. Is it just me who thinks if mum is fine to leave the together, and they're not causing a disturbance, the staff should leave them alone?

And the title is annoying....'a mum'

What about a dad? Why 'a mum'..... like she's some sort of saint or something!?

I too would quite happily have left mine for a few minutes at that age, there is too much hysteria now of children getting snatched off the streets, children are far more likely to have an accident at home and abuse is far more likely from someone close rather than a stranger.

To be honest, I used 'restaurant' pretty loosely. It was McDonalds.
Makes even more sense to leave them behind. McDs WCs are tiny. Plus, if it’s busy, they’d lose their table. And, if the food was being brought out, the staff wouldn’t know where they had gone.

Home alone from 5? What law says that?
The law, law. The one which actually doesn’t have a lower age limit on when children can be left, but instead relies on the individual parent to make a judgement based on their own child and uses the benchmark of risk and neglect for prosecution. You can, actually, leave a 5 year old alone for a short period if you can be satisfied the risk of harm to them is very low. For example, pop next door for five minutes whilst they are in bed and you would not likely be prosecuted, go out to the pub for hours and you would.

Well I was in McDonald's with my own kids Running (who were so engrossed with the iPads that I could watch other people and then start a thread about them ) so I then had to actually parent them for a bit and couldn't spend all my time on Mumsnet. But I did post one other comment a couple of pages back.

And the title said 'mum' because that's who it was in this specific example. But yes, same principle applies to any adult in charge of children.

If someone on Mumsnet complains about the "Americanization" of the UK, please at least spell it with a "z."

I am an American (in America) and I do this all the time. Obviously there are restaurants where I wouldn't. You weigh the risks and do your best -- like all parenting decisions.

I’ve met men who take 20 minutes + in the toilets.

If it was that kind of trip to the loo, then no, not appropriate to leave an 8 yr old in charge of a 5 yr old.

If it was a regular 3 minute trip, then yes, of course it’s okay, assuming no disabilities/behavioural issues.

I don’t agree it that it was outrageous for the waitress to supervise until they got back at all.

In any circumstance, I think it is reasonable if you find young children on their own to be concerned, and to wait with them until their parents returned. Especially if it was in your place of work or responsibility, and you’d served them food.

To me that is what I don’t understand - I get that maybe a parent might make an informed choice to leave a child unattended sometimes. But you’d have to then realise you are not, albeit for a few minutes, parenting them, and I wouldn’t be annoyed if a waitress felt unhappy. It’s a fair cop!

I had a friend who nipped into a shop while her kids were in a car. A passer by reported it and the police were waiting and not happy.

DS2 started toilet training when DS1 started school just before his 5th birthday. There were several times DS2 would urgently need the toilet, usually just after food had been served so I'd let a nearby member of staff know that I was taking the younger one to the toilet.

DS1 has always liked his food and has always been a safe bet to stay in his seat and continue eating, and a typical children's menu is hardly difficult for a child with a full set of teeth to chew through. Dragging him away from his food to a cramped toilet space would be more problematic and a greater range for trip hazard as they walk through the dining area. He's never been a bolter and has always behaved in a predictable manner. DS2... not so much but even he has calmed down and become more rational since he turned 4. I don't have as much trust in him at the same age as DS1 though.

By 8, a swimming pool deems them old enough to change in their own sex changing rooms on their own, and to enter the water without parental supervision. I know which setting I'd consider to be more hazardous, and it's not sitting at a table.

When you have 2 plus children this is how you do it. I'd thank the staff for helping out and think bonus extra help!

I would have been left to watch my brother at a similar age to the McDonald's kids, especially if it was only while mum nipped to the toilet - I don't think she would have even given it a second thought!

Yesterday I left my 7yo and 1yo alone for 5 whole minutes while I collected some packages from next door - DS2 was in the playpen, they were watching cartoons, but I couldn't see the door or them from where I was. Funnily enough everyone was fine when I got back. DS1 was watching out of the window for me though (it's the first time I've trusted him to watch his baby brother, he was so proud when I told him he did a good job!) I think it's not just today's kids that lack resilience, it's parents too - I agonize over things my parents wouldn't bat an eyelid at. Leaving an older child to watch a younger one used to be perfectly normal.

So it was in Mac Donald's?

I can't believe people wouldn't leave their kids at a table. I took daughter and her friends , a couple of 6 yr olds to a sushi place and we sat in a booth with curtains . I didn't think to make them all accompany me to the toilet . They are sensible girls and know how to behave eating out they aren't toddlers.

True, it's not exactly the same (I wouldn't leave them alone in a restaurant) but my point is the kids don't know how to be sensible when left alone unless you leave them to be sensible. When I gave DS1 the chance to be responsible he proved he could handle it, maybe this mum knew her kids could manage a few minutes alone because she's done it in less public situations.

I let my 6 year old play outside unsupervised.

Haha you are leaving your 6yo outside unattended? I assume not in your garden? No comment! Absolute joke!

To the rest of you not thinking there is a risk just read the news!!! It's fine if you're taking the risk when you leave your children unattended Ina public place but to attack posters here who provide minimal care for their DCs i.e to ensure they are safe!!!! That's fucking stupid

Well facilities rarely allow a mom or dad to being everyone to the toilet but I think if I was working somewhere and I saw kids on their own I would keep a super close eye on them. If I couldn't do that for some reason I would probaby ask Somone to keep an eye but standing beside them looking over them is rude. If you don't want people to have to leave kids to go to the toilet then provide space for parents to take ther whole family to te loo! Unisex. Family toilets. I mean the amount of times people have to leave elderly vulnerable people alone to take a pee is insane so it should be understood by most stag that people need to pee and can't bring their kids or senile parents to the stall with them! All anyone has to do is keep an eye out for the safety of any guest/costomer young or old.

Ps I would always ask a waitress to keep an eye on them or a kindly old lady sitting nearby or something just in case and to make people aware that they are there. Kids are small vulnerable people so trusting ten to deal with what may happen is not fair, you find a trusty adult nearby and ask them to keep an eye. That way if some creep walks up they know the guy shouldn't be taking those kids. If you don't let Somone know ... Well it's not worth the possible effects for a moment of embarrassment asking for some help.

This is such an odd thread . When the Mum is at home with all three dc and no other adult should she take all three of them to the toilet at all times including when she needs to go herself in case one of them chokes or falls while she's having a wee ?

*We were tougher back in the day. When I started infants school, back in the dreaded 50’s that many of you hate so much, I used to walk to school alone.

After school I’d often take the long way home through the woods and stroke some horses at a farm. I was just a little nipper, but we we tougher back then.

Now you’re raising frightened little girlie women and girlie men.*

Haha brilliant! Well said.

moonmaker yes absolutely the potential risks in the home are waaaay greater - as evidenced by accident statistics - my 3yo wouldn't move from her seat in a restaurant, but what she might get up to while I go to the loo for 5 mins at home is potentially much more dangerous!!! You just grit your teeth and hope the lessons you instil are enough to keep them safe.

As for the 'read the news' bollocks, there's always one who has no clue about judging relative risks. The absence of that judgement in parenting is much more actively dangerous than anything I've read on this thread. Ten to a penny that some of those sounding off about paedophiles round every corner don't strap their kids in properly on car journeys...

there's always one who has no clue about judging relative risks. The absence of that judgement in parenting is much more actively dangerous than anything I've read on this thread

This

In McDonalds, if you took all three to the toilet, isn't there a risk that someone would assume you had left the table and bin your food? Or would you leave a jacket or something to indicate that the table was still occupied?

Nothing wrong with the mum going to the loo, and there is nothing wrong with the staff keeping an eye on the two kids. The only thing wrong is you OP....... You need to chill.