To wonder why the sham of marriage is still a thing

[munkynutts]

Genuinely.

Just take a look at MN, chockablock full of people who are on their second or third marriages - not judging, just a fact.

Most people couldn't give a fuck about the religious aspect. Most people in this country struggle to even make it to a Christmas service, but suddenly find their soulful side when it comes to marriage?

As well as the rise of one person having multiple marriages over the course of their life, weddings are becoming way more OTT and flamboyant too and we see how many threads there are on here about weddings and gift dilemmas. Once upon a time nee couples did actually need a toaster, now guests are expected to chip in so they can have an experience?!

It just seems to me that the days of sticking around in a relationship that doesn't work for you are long gone, for better or worse (better IMO).

So shouldn't we just cut this wedding crap and have civil partnerships for everyone? Because if you dont believe in god and dont believe in one true love to stick with come what may, then really, whats the fucking point other than to have a Princess Day? Wouldnt it be better to jist buy a nice dress, go down to town hall for civil partnership and then have a few close friends down the pub, rather than expecting guests to fork out for what is essentially a sham?

Then we have divorce and all the complication and entanglement that brings. I mean, just is it worth it?

This is one of the areas where Scotland is ahead - you can have a humanist ceremony and it is recognised legally just like a religious or registrar ceremony.

I do agree that it is very odd how many people make their vows in a religious ceremony when they reject the notion of god / religion.

It's entirely optional, if you don't believe in marriage, don't get married.

Most people couldn't give a fuck about the religious aspect. Most people in this country struggle to even make it to a Christmas service, but suddenly find their soulful side when it comes to marriage?

You’re conflating two issues.^ Many people don’t believe in a religion and don’t see marriage anything to do with a god.^ Getting married is a legal thing, not a religious ritual.

Don't get me started in christenings. I know someone not christened doesn't believe in god etc etc and then got asked by her sister to be godmother to her nephew. She agreed though I asked her if she knew what it meant?! She had no idea!! What a surprise and then agreed to do it anyone and told the vicar she was already christened and then posted on Facebook with a picture with the tag line - blessed.

@candlefloozy
Yeah, people like the photogenic parts of religion if you ask me.
Wedding: Gorgeous shots with beautiful old building and dress
Christening: Lovely white baby gowns and the narcissism of the whole godparent concept
Easter: who gives a fuck. Give me chocolate.

I think you're just feeling left out because no one likes you.

I’m on my third marriage.

First one, engaged at 16, immature, mixed up and stupid. Lasted a year, no children.

Second, 23 years, 2 gorgeous children, generally happy and all amicable after split. It ran its course.

Third (and my last) I got it right this time. I never thought I’d get married after 2 but it was all about love, commitment and being a partnership. Nothing to do with god, we eloped just the two of us. I love being married to him. It’s all about being his wife and he my husband, we love it, indulge in it and it’s all gooey and romantic and feels safe.

Virtually everyone I know is married and there have been very few divorces (only one among my close friends and they’re the couple everyone would have put money on to split up). None of us is religious and people mostly had secular wedding ceremonies.

@munkynutts totally right! It was all
Because it looks and sounds good. Oh I'm a godmother someone likes me enough to choose me to be that person for their child! Err no they didn't want you feeling left out!!
It really annoys me.

Why the focus on religious ceremonies when a clear majority of the population have secular weddings?

My wedding next year will be nowhere near a church or have any religion involved. We have lived together for 10 years and We are not considered next of kin 😟 I find that odd. More rights should go to co-habiting couples who basically live as married people without the legal aspect.

Thought marriage only happened in a church/religious ceremony.....hmmmm...

On another point I’m surprised ‘defacto’ relationships are still not given the same or similar rights to married couples, particularly those with children.

More rights should go to co-habiting couples who basically live as married people without the legal aspect.

Why? Some couples deliberately choose not to marry because they want to preserve assets, for example for their children. If long term cohabitation becomes marriage by default, then what do couples who actively want to avoid the legal status of marriage do. If you want the rights of married people, why not get married?

On another point I’m surprised ‘defacto’ relationships are still not given the same or similar rights to married couples, particularly those with children

Because that would mean people would be in a contract without having actually agreed to it.

Exactly. People who advocate for cohabitants to automatically acquire the legal ramifications of marriage without marrying are fucking over other people. That is, those who want to live together but specifically don't want the legal implications.

It's useful to think of it not just as something that would mean people acquire rights, but also something that would remove other rights. If cohabitation is treated in the same way legally as marriage, that means people who want to be able to live with a partner but pass their home onto their kids without the partner having any claim in the event of separation or death lose that right.

I took the Op to mean that church marriages were a sham as so few people attend chuch accept for weddings and funerals. Even if you are a believer there is no compunction to stay married or remarry if people want. Hence that marriage in a church should be now become civil partnerships.

If you read the op’s later posts you will see that she didn’t know that you could be married in any way other than in a church. She thought that all people who get married do so in a religious ceremony regardless of their faith or lack of.

I have been with my partner 20 years living together for most of that. We have as solid a relationship as any married couple bar a couple of signatures, why shouldn't the law be changed to reflect the increasing variety of relationships. I have no intention of being bullied into marraige for legal equal rights and think it is wrong that anyone should feel pressurised.

Depends what sort of law change you want.

If you want the introduction of something that's essentially the same as marriage but has another name because you don't like the connotation or whatever, that's one thing. An arguably unnecessary expense for the state but otherwise benign enough, and not hurting anyone else.

If you want the law to change to fuck other people over because you're too special to be 'forced' into engaging in the existing legal contract process to get the rights you want, bollocks to that.

I had a small registry office wedding. It was great. No fake religion.

I would not have wanted to have the legal commitment foisted on me because I moved in with someone.

I have been with my partner 20 years living together for most of that. We have as solid a relationship as any married couple bar a couple of signatures, why shouldn't the law be changed to reflect the increasing variety of relationships. I have no intention of being bullied into marraige for legal equal rights and think it is wrong that anyone should feel pressurised.

So what law change do you want? What legal rights do you want that you don't want to get via marriage? Are you asking for marriage just by another name? What rights do you want to pick and choose?

I have no intention of handing my children's inheritance to some bloke if I happen to find myself single again by default just because we decide to move in together, just because some other people want rights but don't want to do a 10 minute trip to the registry office. I'm all for civil partnerships for straight couples but hell no to automatic rights for cohabitees!

I'm married at the moment, although unlikely to be for much longer. I had a religious ceremony and am a Christian. I also believe in love that you have to work at, and marriage being forever. My marriage meant a hell of a lot to me, and still does. I didn't choose for my husband to fall out of love with me and decide that working at it wasn't going to change anything. So I'm probably getting divorced. That doesn't make my marriage, or the concept of marriage, a sham. I think pretty much everyone who gets married does so because it means something to them, and personally I find your attitude pretty rude, OP.

I’m on my third marriage purely because I like wedding cake.

God no I wouldn't want automatic rights. Before marriage, I owned my own place and had two live in relationships with boyfriends/partners I absolutely would NOT have wanted to have the same rights as those involved in marriage.

Once I was happy and ready to make that kind of commitment, I got married. Very clear message to the world that I was choosing to share my life and assets with this man and taking responsibility for that decision whatever happened. No grey areas.

If you get married outside of a church you cant even use any sonfs that have any religious connections.

I married my husband on a beach in a tropical country. Just us, the necessary people, and a few random nosy people that happened to be walking along the beach at the time. Was absolute bliss