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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To wonder why the sham of marriage is still a thing

192 replies

munkynutts · 26/11/2017 12:49

Genuinely.

Just take a look at MN, chockablock full of people who are on their second or third marriages - not judging, just a fact.

Most people couldn't give a fuck about the religious aspect. Most people in this country struggle to even make it to a Christmas service, but suddenly find their soulful side when it comes to marriage?

As well as the rise of one person having multiple marriages over the course of their life, weddings are becoming way more OTT and flamboyant too and we see how many threads there are on here about weddings and gift dilemmas. Once upon a time nee couples did actually need a toaster, now guests are expected to chip in so they can have an experience?!

It just seems to me that the days of sticking around in a relationship that doesn't work for you are long gone, for better or worse (better IMO).

So shouldn't we just cut this wedding crap and have civil partnerships for everyone? Because if you dont believe in god and dont believe in one true love to stick with come what may, then really, whats the fucking point other than to have a Princess Day? Wouldnt it be better to jist buy a nice dress, go down to town hall for civil partnership and then have a few close friends down the pub, rather than expecting guests to fork out for what is essentially a sham?

Then we have divorce and all the complication and entanglement that brings. I mean, just is it worth it?

OP posts:
BuggerOffAndGoodDayToYou · 26/11/2017 13:38

I married in church (one marriage, 26 years and counting), children baptised in church and I will be going to church on Christmas Day (like I do most Sundays).

YABU to think we are all the same. Many marriages do work! just had a quick think about the people coming to my Christmas party this year. One couple married for just 10 years but they are a lot younger than us. One couple together for 25 years but never bothered with marriage. Four other couples all well over 20 years, first marriages all round. One couple recently celebrated 30 years wed. Several of them also go to church regularly.

Sandsnake · 26/11/2017 13:39

Marriage has absolutely nothing to do with religion. Traditionally, marriages were held in a church as that was our national 'go to point' for official ceremonies. Now there are other options.

Religious people who think they have a right to claim the age old human tendency to commit to one another can do one frankly.

Eltonjohnssyrup · 26/11/2017 13:39

They didn't let gay couples marry initially because there was opposition to actual marriage being for gay people. Civil partnerships allowed the law to get on the statute books while circumventing opposition to gay marriage which was stronger at the time.

RatRolyPoly · 26/11/2017 13:40

Marriage has been around for a lot longer than Christianity in this country. Pre-Roman Britons were pairing up and getting married since the year dot.

Why didn't the government just legalise gay marriage straight away? Well governments the to want to keep the population on side, as they rather rely on them to be voted into government in the first place! And a lot of the population bought into this whole "god said marriage is between one man and one woman ONLY" nonsense, when actually marriage is something people created, and people can do with it what they like.

MiraiDevant · 26/11/2017 13:40

I completely agree OP and have thought so for a longtime.

Marriage is no longer meaningful as an institution. ("I promise .... but only until I change my mind"

People should be able to write their own legal agreements when they get together - that would avoid all the fighting at the end. We are long overdue a re-think of marriage which is little more than a financial and citizenship contract. (The ceremony may mean a lot to individuals - I absolutely do not doubt that - but as an institution it is no more than a blueprint for the divorce)

I am not bitter either - I had a very happy relationship with DP. We have known each other for over 30 years, have children and were a couple for twenty five years. Never married.

ClaryFray · 26/11/2017 13:41

I'm getting married and I'm quite vocal about the fact god is a character in a book that would be better suited to the fiction section.

Weddings and marriage are a persons choice.

Original poster
munkynutts · 26/11/2017 13:43

The thing is though, those of you laughing (and actually being a bit mean) at me for the confusion re marriage not being religious:
Clearly whole gay marriage hoo ha, with the church defining marriage as a sacred institution, means it isnt actually as clear-cut as youre8making it out to be.

OP posts:
bananafish81 · 26/11/2017 13:44

For anyone who isn't the OP and is in possession of critical thinking and a modicum of knowledge about current affairs, this is a very interesting ruling around a straight couple petitioning for a civil partnership

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2017/feb/21/heterosexual-couples-should-not-be-allowed-civil-partnerships-court-rules

The thing that pissed me off about my marriage certificate was that it has a box asking for the name of our respective fathers, but no opportunity to put that of our mothers. So no provision for being raised by a single mother - or indeed two mothers! We left these blank as neither of us were being given away by our parents - a civil partnership certificate doesn't ask for details of your parents

hellofresh · 26/11/2017 13:44

I married for love, in a registry office not a church. It wasn't a religious thing. I was extremely glad I had done when DH had an affair and I wanted a divorce. As a SAHP I would have been financially screwed without the protection of the marriage contract.

I won't marry again but I also won't ever give up any form of independence for a man.

Original poster
munkynutts · 26/11/2017 13:44

@MiraiDevant
"People should be able to write their own legal agreements when they get together - that would avoid all the fighting at the end. We are long overdue a re-think of marriage which is little more than a financial and citizenship contract."

Exactly my thinking.

OP posts:
bananafish81 · 26/11/2017 13:45

@munkynutts we're laughing at you because it's a bit thick to start an argument about something you freely admit you know nothing about

Original poster
munkynutts · 26/11/2017 13:46

@bananafish81
I don't think so. I was hoping to learn something and I have. I'm sorry it seems ignorant. On the other hand, we've had a 30 page thread on here recently about a 2 year old eating a Krispy Kreme so horses for courses.

OP posts:
DixieFlatline · 26/11/2017 13:46

Clearly whole gay marriage hoo ha, with the church defining marriage as a sacred institution, means it isnt actually as clear-cut as youre8making it out to be.

No, it's just yet another example of certain religious people attempting to lay claim to certain things in an effort to strengthen their prestige/appeal/in-group vibe.

Y'know, like when some religious people claim 'but if God hadn't given us the Ten Commandments we wouldn't know stealing and killing was bad'.

SilverySurfer · 26/11/2017 13:47

There is no such thing as a civil partnership in law. It's effectively living together with none of the protections that a marriage provides. Not married - you have no right to a share of a property. Your partner can turf you out on the street and you have no recourse. You are not your partner's next of kin - if he were to be seriously ill you would have no say over treatment he may receive and in worst case scenario, you would have no say on whether he lives or dies. There are many other advantages to marriage which I will leave you to discover for yourself.

Ok i have a confession to make. I didnt actually realise that marriage wasnt necessarily religious. What i mean is I didnt realise you could get married in a registry office and it be free from any religious connotation.

Unless you have lived under a rock all your life how can you possibly not know about the existence of non-religious registry office weddings?

RagingFemininist · 26/11/2017 13:47

I couldn’t agree more OP. I’ve been married twice, I am so glad not to be any longer. I find the accusations of bitterness laughable in the assumption that being in a “marriage” MUST be a state that we are all aspiring to.

YY to that.
I’m not sure what it is about marriage that is such that we should all be married.
When people are in their 2nd or 3rd marriage, stats show thatbthese marriage are much less likely to last.
So why marry? Why pooling ressources, making yours mine etc... and then knowing that the chances are you will have to go through the pain of divorce again, separate assets, fights etc...?
And what is it that is so different than living together (or even being together apart) that you should dream of the wedding of your life?
For me, it’s like a left over from the 1800 when women were worth Noth8ng unless they were married. A left over from a very patriarcal society. And a time when men needed a wife to do all the chores, give him children (inheritance or body to work and bring food) and look good in the society (the trophy wife).

RatRolyPoly · 26/11/2017 13:47

with the church defining marriage as a sacred institution

It's a sacred institution to them. To you and I it needn't be.

Eolian · 26/11/2017 13:48

No, that doesn't remotely change the fact that you didn't have a clue what you're talking about. Yes there are church objections to gay marriage, but religion isn't the only reason. After all, homosexuality was actually illegal until not that long ago, whether you were religious or not.

bananafish81 · 26/11/2017 13:48

@munkynutts so why not ask about the issue of marriage saying you'd like to understand more about it, instead of slagging those of us who chose to get married off?

Original poster
munkynutts · 26/11/2017 13:48

"So why marry? Why pooling ressources, making yours mine etc... and then knowing that the chances are you will have to go through the pain of divorce again, separate assets, fights etc...?
And what is it that is so different than living together (or even being together apart) that you should dream of the wedding of your life?"

This was basically one of my questions @RagingFemininist

OP posts:
Eolian · 26/11/2017 13:49

Sorry, that was in reply to OP's post at 13.43.

Original poster
munkynutts · 26/11/2017 13:49

@bananafish81
I wasnt slagging anyone off and if you feel that way you need to examine why. Sorry.

OP posts:
notangelinajolie · 26/11/2017 13:50

Wow! You are wrong on so many levels. You also sound very bitter and angry. I can't work out if it is Church you don't like or people getting married in Churches that you don't like. Marriage is not a sham. It may sound like it on mumsnet sometimes - I read some really terrible things on here too but plenty of do marriages work. Even church ones.

Original poster
munkynutts · 26/11/2017 13:50

@Eolian
So what I'm saying is, if there are church objections to (gay) marriage, we can't say that marriage and religion are two entirely separate things.

OP posts:
Judydreamsofhorses · 26/11/2017 13:51

I’m not religious but want to marry my partner - I don’t especially want a wedding or to be a bride, or even a big party. It worries me that if I ended up in a coma my partner would currently have no legal say over treatment, but my brother, who I’ve not spoken to in years, would.

Bratsandtwats · 26/11/2017 13:51

DH and I are not at all religious. We got married in a church as that is what our parents expected. We've celebrated our silver wedding anniversary this year so that kind of disproves your point OP.

However, saying that, now we are 25 years older and wiser I would just have the civil ceremony or get married abroad or something.