To think the Nativity story is more worrying in terms of consent issues than sleeping beauty etc?

[grobagsforever]

Inspired by the sleeping beauty discussion (but not a TAT). I agree that the message of men kissing women who can't consent is a damaging message for young girls but I'm baffled as to why more people aren't concerned about children being exposed to the nativity.

Mary is impregnated by a male God. In the biblical version she is 'asked' (although how she'd have the courageous to refuse I don't know) but in the children's Christmas version the line is usually something like 'The (male) angel appeared and told Mary she was to have a baby'

Then a mute Mary is transported by donkey at the request of another man, made to give birth in a stable and then visited postpartum by a series of men! All without her explicit consent or consultation.

Am I the only person who thinks this story should not be taught to young children??

Excellent point!

Yes heaven forbid that the story of jesus birth should be mentioned at the celebration of it !
For goodness sake get a grip. Not everything in life has to be seen through the filter of male aggression and violence against women.

I was thinking just yesterday, as I told the story to my class, that as a film it would fail the Bechdel test.

If we are going to critique fairy stories then, yes, I agree.

Ps angels are neither male or female as the bible makes clear and regularly played by girls in nativity plays !

Mary does consent. She is also a very powerful figure

Oh op, you failed to put ‘lighthearted’ in your title.

P p s you do know that jesus was an actual historical figure and not a made up story ?!!

Yes - what 'young child' would read into the story in that depth??????

The world has proven to me that we are going mad as a race once again.

Maybe there were a load of other Marys who said no.
But God just cut them out of the story.
Maybe Gabriel was getting a bit desperate by then.

Joesph was also a victim of the Patriarchy though.

Dear God, some people!!!

Maybe Gabriel was getting a bit desperate by then

And what about all those male Greek Gods going around doing their stuff in Earth?

Talk about the ultimate power imbalance...

and anyway, of course Mary consented.

I always thought the immaculate conception was the first attempt at an excuse for infidelity

I don't have a problem with this one because it's total sci-fi. Immaculate conception is not actually a thing in reality ever. So the who story can be discounted without it affecting how we view ourselves.

MrsP

shiny dude sooooooooooo Joan, my boss would like to impregnate you. It’s an honour you see; he’ll not provide child support or be involved in any way. Obviously we’ll inform your husband this is happening and expect him to pick up Gods slack. Right? Just lie back......

Joan Get to Fuck will you? Derek get this wingy bastard pervert out my house!

Yeah I can see how some others may have rejected the idea.

I always thought the immaculate conception was the first attempt at an excuse for infidelity

I agree.

However, a pedant writes, the conception and birth of Jesus was not the immaculate conception. Mary was the result of the immaculate conception in that she was conceived without sin and therefore pure enough to carry the son of God.

I don't think Mary could have consented as she was under 16! Poor wee lass

I truly cannot believe people believe this shit is real.

It's a bad story to tell children as in passing it off as realism.

I'm assuming this is a joke, but it raises some interesting questions anyway. Even if this were a story about a sexual assault, which is at best debatable since the whole point is supposed to be that the conception happens 'immaculately' ;) erasing stories with which we might actually introduce young people to ideas about consent just sweeps the subject of consent and sexual violence (back) under the carpet. We need the difficult stories, too: they help us talk about things.