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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to worry that the Grenfell Tower fire is now being used as an excuse to bully disabled tenants.

124 replies

HelenaDove · 24/11/2017 15:57

Saw this article about tough new rules for people living in flats who use mobility scooters.

I wonder if the large shopping centres who charge scooters overnight will be subject to the same rules.

www.scunthorpetelegraph.co.uk/news/tough-new-rules-mobility-scooters-362201

OP posts:
KathArtic · 26/11/2017 12:32

Do you really think they would want to risk all their stock or pay the sky high insurance premiums? You can't make assumptions on what they would want.

MuseumOfCurry · 26/11/2017 12:34

I think anyone who describes having a mobility scooter as a "lifestyle choice" should have a hard look at themselves.

Are you unaware of the flurry of debate surrounding the enormous proliferation of mobility scooters?

hamptonhangingpork · 26/11/2017 13:10

Museum - yes I have. There have also been a proliferation of statins, beta blockers, insulin, wheelchairs and grip designs so people can use toilets with less difficulty. So not quite following your logic.

But as to you point: It's quite a polarised debate where people pick a side and don't shift, isn't it?

Sort of like dogwalkers and cyclists' debates.

Not massively sure about the hate from the other side though. If you replace "scooter" with "wheelchair", would you feel better disposed to people with them?

LurkingHusband · 26/11/2017 13:55

I think anyone who describes having a mobility scooter as a "lifestyle choice" should have a hard look at themselves.

MrsLH has Multiple Sclerosis. Currently her legs are "fucked" (her words). It's a struggle to get out of bed, and she has to use a wheelchair inside the bungalow.

If she didn't have access to a powered scooter, life would be very difficult indeed. The phrase "bedridden" springs to mind.

hamptonhangingpork · 26/11/2017 14:34

Flowers Lurking.

Exactly.

On another note, I once had a Fanta bottle filled with urine thrown at me while I was at a music concert. Should I seek the end of the proliferation of Fanta bottles?

I found that experience infinitely far more inconvenient than the mere existence of mobility scooters.

LurkingHusband · 26/11/2017 14:47

Anyway, if it's any consolation, the general state of the UK infrastructure - and it's continuing deterioration - will only make life hardly for scooter users anyway. So those people who are so offended by seeing them will be able to rest easy.

I wonder if Boston Dynamics realise that one of stated purposes - to help with the less able - is so unpalatable to some in the UK. Probably why they are Boston Massachusetts based, not Boston Lincolnshire based I guess.

MrsLH dreams of being able to use Atlas to navigate the city.

Mehfruittea · 26/11/2017 15:33

I use an electric wheelchair. I’ve used mobility scooters when I was waiting for my chair. They are huge and difficult to leave anywhere convenient. I have a house and don’t really have anywhere to leave a chair or scooter that does not block an exit.

From the OP. I would actually assume it is about creating a safe space, freeing up small hallways and comunal landings. But if all scooters are to remain at the bottom of a high rise, they have to provide a safe space where they can be charged. And PAT testing would be required because it’s a communal area.

When I go on holiday, it’s so hard to get my wheelchair in to a hotel room and then positioned where it doesn’t block the door, bathroom or balcony.

I think the is a clear space and emergency access issue, not an electrical safety issue.

Akire · 26/11/2017 15:42

If HA and its a very big if have space and money to pay for storage miles away from
Flats so fire does not spread and pay for electricity. How are you supposed to get them? Great if you have a full time carer but if you can’t walk far your stuffed. My flats it’s least 50metre walk down hallways and landings to get to carpark. And these safe places are not going be close are they. After all is one is dangerous then 6 or 7 together is asking for trouble.

Akire · 26/11/2017 15:48

IT was in London news few weeks
Ago high rises banning sheds that a few people on ground floor and had garden had put up. They were garden length away from
Flats but anything seem as hazard Simone disnt want it on their plate. Still same
Risk if you have rubbish, recycling, motorbikes and whatever else you used to keep in
Your shed stuck all over the garden instead. That’s why thinking even if councils do
Build special garages and put proper power in how many old ladies are going walk that far and manage to lift garage doors and the like never mind carry shopping all way back upstairs

HermionesRightHook · 26/11/2017 16:01

I don't agree at all with preventing people from having scooters, I think there is a lot of ableism going on with these HAs and councils.

But re: the shopping centre issue - the shopping centres will have to do yearly PAT testing of all electrics and will have someone specifically responsible for ensuring the scooters are in good condition. They are also providing them as part of a reasonable accommodations for disabled people and will have made a risk calculation based know their testing of them and that there's no people in the building over night. I would think that's why they can have them there - they've decided it's worth the risk and mitigated it as best they can.

The HAs and similar can't PAT test other people's belongings and haven't got any idea of whether they are maintained properly, and people are asleep and otherwise vulnerable in the buildings. So they don't take the risk.

Is this fair? I don't think so, I think they should come up with a way of accommodating this need, and they don't because of the cost - and they're not understanding how much of a need they are, up there with washing machines. But that's probably why they're different circumstances.

LurkingHusband · 26/11/2017 16:27

MNHQ don't really know why my PP was deleted either ... (as they said it was "probably" rather than "definitely" ...).

Oh well, better make a post saying how wonderful the Daily Mail is, and that I would gladly sell my house and all my belongings to ensure it continues to carry on such excellent journalism. That definitely won't be deleted.

HelenaDove · 26/11/2017 17:10

From Twitter.

Deb‏
@Deb35
Nov 24
More
Mother in law is going to view a property next week was asked by housing officer if she could leave elec wheelchair at home ! I would have replied yes as long as you leave your legs at home

Hmm
OP posts:
HelenaDove · 01/12/2017 21:39

Well im sure the housing associations will be writing to every tenant about this and The Chief Fire Officers association will commision the same sort of report as they did for mobility scooters. Xmas Hmm

www.theguardian.com/money/2017/dec/01/mps-demand-whirlpool-explain-end-to-dryer-replacement-scheme?CMP=twt_gu

OP posts:
HelenaDove · 02/12/2017 01:30

ANOTHER HA using Grenfell Tower as a reason.

www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news/bolton/15690074.90_year_old_warned_housing_bosses_could_confiscate_her___39_fire_hazard__39__mobility_scooter/

OP posts:
HelenaDove · 02/12/2017 01:31

"A 90-year-old grandmother has been warned that her mobility scooter could be confiscated by housing bosses, after they labelled it a fire hazard.

Audrey Lever says that she and her neighbours in Tonge Moor have been told by Bolton at Home that their scooters will be taken away if they are not removed from communal hallways, following safety inspections that have taken place since the Grenfell Tower disaster.

But the 90-year-old says her flat is too small to store her scooter — which she recently bought for £1,000 — and that the social housing provider is yet to offer alternative storage.

MP Sir David Crausby, who has been contacted by the affected residents, described the situation as 'political correctness gone mad'.

Mrs Lever, who lives in a two-storey block in Shireburn Avenue, said: "We were told that everything in the communal entrance hall had to be removed because it is a fire hazard.

"But there is not enough room in my flat for my scooter. You might get it through the doorway, but that would be about it.

"The only alternative would be to put it outside, but then it would be stolen.

"Nobody has ever made a complaint about the scooters being parked in the hallway before, but since Grenfell there have been inspectors from Bolton at Home looking around every now and again and telling us they need to be moved.

"My scooter is tucked away under the stairs and is no problem to anyone.

"We have had two or three letters from Bolton at Home now and we have been given until November 30 to move them, or they will be taken away."

Neither Mrs Lever's daughter nor granddaughter live locally, meaning she relies on her mobility scooter to get around.

There are at least five scooters in her building which are at risk of being removed and Bolton at Home bosses say they 'won't compromise' on safety, though they have pledged to discuss other options with residents.

Mrs Lever added: "I don't want them to take my scooter away. It cost me £1,000 and I can't afford to lose it.

"I can walk but I can't carry anything, so the scooter really helps me.

"When the weather is reasonable it means I can go out of the house every day.

"I know that some of the newer buildings around here have storage spaces for scooters built in, but ours is an older building.

"Bolton at Home should be updating the buildings instead of threatening to take our scooters away."

Sir David, the MP for Bolton North East, said: "It seems to me like political correctness gone mad. You have got to be reasonable and practical about these things.

"You have to take fire hazards seriously, but there needs to be a balanced judgement.

"This seems like using a sledgehammer to crack a nut.

"I will be lobbying the powers that be to try and get a sensible solution."

An independent fire safety risk assessor told The Bolton News that the scooter could constitute a fire risk, particularly if its battery was charging or if it was blocking an exit, as communal areas should be kept clear of potential sources of ignition or combustible items.

A Bolton at Home spokesman said: “We will speak with our customers who have mobility scooters at Shireburn Avenue again. Before we take any action we want to better understand their individual needs and discuss potential options for safe and secure storage.

"We wrote to customers as we won’t compromise when it comes to their safety, and their neighbours’ safety, and we can’t allow blocked access in communal areas.

"We will work with customers to address their individual circumstances and assess the best course of action.”

Following the Grenfell Tower disaster in London earlier this year, which killed 71 people, all buildings of six storeys and above across Greater Manchester were inspected for fire risks."

OP posts:
RavingRoo · 02/12/2017 01:56

Disabled people should be living on ground level. End of story. Everyone knows that in council flats it often takes ages for the lift to get fixed - ever seen a disabled woman crawl up 10 floors while her carer lugs up the shopping and wheelchair? It was a regular occurance when I was growing up. You can have a family with kids upstairs but the disabled and elderly should be on ground.

Wingedharpy · 02/12/2017 02:40

The fire officers report does seem to be about keeping communal hallways and landings clear and safe as stated by a PP.
It says that tenants should keep personal belongings within their property, this includes mobility scooters.
However, it is not acceptable to remove the risk from a means of escape and introduce increased risk within a domestic setting.
So, essentially it's about getting the balance right.

HelenaDove · 02/12/2017 02:46

Its disingenuous and bloody disrespectful to the Grenfell survivors and their families and the ones who died in the fire to use Grenfell as an excuse.

Are they also going to be checking that tenants dont have those Whirlpool tumble dryers or are they just going to continue to go for easy targets like the disabled/ill tenants.

OP posts:
LurkingHusband · 02/12/2017 12:17

Everyone knows that in council flats it often takes ages for the lift to get fixed

and only then after able bodied tenants complain.

Barbiesears · 02/12/2017 12:53

I can see where they are coming from if the scooters are in the communal areas. In our flats, an appliance setting on fire inside a flat would set off the fire alarm system and we would have chance to leave the flats while the fire is still inside that individual flat even if it does eventually spread. A scooter (or anything charging in the communal area) setting on fire would block the escape route immediately and effectively trap every one of us in our flats.

If people can store them in their flats though, they should be treated as any other appliance.

I wonder if its a blanket ban because they can't be certain that people will actually store them inside their flats and they keep finding one or two in the communal areas risking everyone's safety.

HelenaDove · 02/12/2017 16:15

Any HA doing this will of course have a squeaky clean gas safety record because it would be incredibly hypocritical of them if they didnt.

OP posts:
Akire · 02/12/2017 18:31

My lift has been broken since yesterday morning, I’m only person who ever reports it as everyone else just uses the stairs! They don’t care. Should been fixed as urgent.

HelenaDove · 02/12/2017 18:43

Akire Angry

OP posts:
HelenaDove · 07/12/2017 21:14

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

HelenaDove · 07/12/2017 21:15

"There is only one thing worse than being talked about and thats not being talked about."

Oscar Wilde.

OP posts: