to worry that the Grenfell Tower fire is now being used as an excuse to bully disabled tenants.

[HelenaDove]

Saw this article about tough new rules for people living in flats who use mobility scooters.

I wonder if the large shopping centres who charge scooters overnight will be subject to the same rules.

www.scunthorpetelegraph.co.uk/news/tough-new-rules-mobility-scooters-362201

there are loads of examples of dishwashers and tumble dryers starting fires but tenants are not being told (because lets face it its the fact that its renters that its really about) that they cant have dishwashers even though you can still wash up by hand .......its no biggie. Or that they cant have tumble driers either.

Things like this are what makes it discrimination.

Thanks for the article- it had a very off tone don’t you think? I can’t see how it would be possible to have one in a flag. Surely if you have a house you have to have a garage with a electric point. But in flats where is there going to be places to keep them? Even in my carpark under flats they may be room but still leaves the problem of how you stop them being stolen, and how you charge them. Granted if so flammable all take is someone smoking near one to start a fire. And under flats so we can all be quickly roasted.

Really didn’t like this bit... My principal concern here is the ever-increasing financial burden on landlords who remain committed to providing for elderly and disabled tenants and it could certainly be argued that this is part of their charitable function.

Wow just how to make people feel like a burden. How exactly are people like me costing more than someone next door with 6 kids?

Realistically they can just refuse and what will people do then. All extra social care and nhs because someone can’t get out to gp or shops or you know have a life. Basically if you have misfortune to be old or disabled and not being able to or can’t work so have to rely on social housing you can’t have something that help your mobility.

Just because someone works in a profession that is deemed to be heroic it doesnt mean that they may/may not be carrying their own prejudices.

From Eltons link.

." I have noticed, however, that a significant proportion of users choose to acquire a mobility scooter as a lifestyle choice; granted this is quite within their entitlement, but out of fairness to all concerned, do you not agree that some form of charging should be introduced?"

Jesus wept.

He owns an outdoor storage company. So completely impartial then

"HOMEWHAT WE DOABOUT USSCOOTER SHARENEWSCONTACT
Property Manager stock image COMPANY NEWS, SCOOTER CHARGING STATIONS, WASTE STREAM ENCLOSURES BIN STORAGE, METROSTOR INSIGHT, OUTDOOR STORAGE, OUTDOOR STORAGE AUDIT, SCOOTER STORAGE, SOCIAL HOUSING JULY 21, 2017
metroSTOR Insight – the free outdoor storage audit
metroSTOR Insight – the free outdoor storage audit
Nigel Deacon, metroSTOR Sales DirectorNigel Deacon, Sales Director at metroSTOR, shares his thoughts on the current state of the social housing industry and news on the UK’s first free outdoor storage audit service.
‘I have been privileged to work with countless numbers of amazing social housing professionals across the UK, helping them to find cost-effective solutions to fire risks associated with refuse bins and mobility scooters. Almost without exception, their ability to resolve these challenges has been constrained by the availability of budgets and human resources; but struggling against all odds I continue to see them improving thousands of customer’s lives and making hundreds of neighbourhoods safer every year.
To me, the tragic events of recent weeks have shown just how fragile the social housing sector has now become. There may well have been serious failings and mismanagement, and statutes will no doubt be reviewed and re-written; the changes, for some at least, will sadly be too late. Overall however, I see a sector that has been doing its level best to balance priorities on a reducing income with very little external assistance. Social housing professionals are the unsung heroes in my book, and political ideology appears to have dealt them a terrible disservice.
Much of the focus since Grenfell has quite rightly been on ensuring that high-rise flats are all fitted with sprinklers and fire-doors and not encapsulated with a flammable cladding material. But I have also heard from numerous clients that have identified safe storage for bins and mobility scooters as one of their top priorities; whatever aspect is being considered, this lesson is coming with a hefty price-tag, both in human and financial terms, and a huge amount of work remains to bring all homes up to the required standard.
The metroSTOR team remain committed to providing innovative solutions in their field, and one of the latest is metroSTOR Insight – the UK’s first free outdoor storage audit service. Let one of our experienced team members help you survey your properties, identifying and documenting fire risks associated with refuse bins and mobility scooters before developing cost-effective solutions for each scheme, complete with budget costs and clear demonstration of your return on investment. There are no fees – we will of course specify metroSTOR products where we think they are a best fit, but we are also honest enough to tell you when we think that there may be a better alternative.
There’s even more to come – with our new fire-resistant enclosures, amazing free product trials and flexible rental packages, reach out to metroSTOR today and let us help you take the strain!"

And hes using Grenfell as part of a fucking sales pitch.

I think anyone who describes having a mobility scooter as a "lifestyle choice" should have a hard look at themselves.

I thought we had moved on from the idea that the disabled should be kept out of sight / housebound or must deserve their circumstances due to their own moral failings e.g. that they made themselves unable to walk by their greed for food etc. Which some posters have alluded to.

I'm pretty sure people would not deal with the hassle of negotiating the country's crappy paths, narrow halls and judgy people if it was as simple as losing weight (medication allowing).

When you consider the lack of available adapted premises let alone simple ground floor properties, where should they go?

No one ever plans for a life of disability and simple humanity should mean that people could demonstrate a little compassion.

And personally, I have never seen a scooter cause fires unlike Whirlpool appliances, chargers, phones etc. The disabled people I worked with were meticulous in their care of their most expensive possession.

This Nigel guy is trying to sell solutions for the problem of having disabled tenants, presumably because they are easier and more lucrative targets.

Personally, I would be interested in purchasing one of his storage solutions. And storing him in it.

Personally, I would be interested in purchasing one of his storage solutions. And storing him in it.

I’ve just found a link for this study because it’s been bugging me.

Here it is. It says that since 2009/10 there have been 36 fires involving mobility scooters, of which 24 were started deliberately. So that’s 12 over 7/8 years. They are not a big risk. I bet the fire service go out to more than 12 fires started by candles a day.

@SusannahL I don't give a toss if this gets me deleted or banned but

It sounds a very sensible precaution to me. It also might make those who actually aren't disabled , but who use these scooters because they are too fat too walk far, to get some exercise.

You're a total twat.

The link I put up was discussing the study FairyCaravan put up, although it's commercial it did accurately discuss the findings. And I did suggest googling to find lots more reference to it.

If you read that study it says that although there mobility scooter fires do not happen 'every week' and are sometimes deliberately started they are 'particularly devastating' when they do happen and have caused 'a number of fatalities and injuries'.

So there's the problem. It's not the frequency with which fires happen, but the devastation they can cause when fires do happen. They cause fires that spread easily. Which is why it's different from other electrical devices.

And when it comes from this association and as per that report, it's not just their opinion and which job they do, it's the result of controlled scientific testing which has confirmed the risk.

I don't think you have a chance in hell at getting this decision reversed in the face of scientific evidence. You would be a lot better off campaigning for better, less flammable options from manufacturers or affordable storage options.

They've been identified as a risk of causing particularly devastating fires. So unless you can provide scientific evidence which contradicts that you really are on a hiding to nothing.

They are not a big risk. I bet the fire service go out to more than 12 fires started by candles a day.

As I said above and as that study says, the risk is not the frequency of the fires but the devastation they cause when they happen.

So 24 of those fires were actually arson. Yet he omitted that What an absolutely vile man.

Elton all fires are devastating. Last Christmas in my hometown there was a fire caused by a candle that killed a mother and daughter.

And those 24 fires were very likely due to prejudice and hatred towards the disabled A prejudice which Nigel is contributing to and stoking with his attitude.

hampton

Not all fires are devastating. Some are small and easy to put out. Some spread slowly and are often detected before they become a hazard.

If a candle ignites a fire the probability it will spread and cause fatalities is pretty low, although nobody is denying sometimes it will. But with these scooters the types of fires they cause are very likely to cause fatalities.

I can understand why you're frustrated, but I think fighting against this is just pointless and your energy would be better spent campaigning your landlord to improve options for free/affordable storage. Given the advice and research behind it you're simply wasting your breath asking that they be stored in MO buildings without oversight.

Nobody is calling for tenants to remove dishwashers or tumble dryers and those can cause fires that are just as devastating.

I own neither of these things. Neither do i own a candle I have those round lights that i can press whenever there is a power cut.

I think you need to face the fact that you may be carrying some prejudice yourself.

Look, I don't know the exact figures. But the logic they will be using will be that for every 10,000 dishwasher or tumble dryer fatality which happens there are maybe 5 fatalities. But 5 fatalities may occur from a much lower number of scooter fires. They say that there have been fatalities from something low like 32, so therefore they would extrapolate that 5 fatalities would occur per 60 scooters which makes them an unacceptable risk.

It's not prejudice, it's maths and science. I think you need to get a grip and realise the world is not out to deliberately persecute you for no reason.

Its a very big possibility that 24 of those fires were disability hate crimes.

Thankyou for that link Fairy. Even the Chief Fire Officers Association are intimating that its a lifestyle choice.
So my comment at 2.54 stands.

Look at this 175 Hoover washing machines caught fire in 3 years. Are they being banned from flats? What about the 410 Hotpoint dishwashers ?

We need to remember that these aren’t the only appliance fires over the 3 years too. So why are mobility scooters being banned when they carry a much smaller risk than other things in the flats?

And mobility scooters didnt even make the list in Fairys link.

helena

Not a squeak from MNHQ so ....

gist of my posting

I made the observation that whilst it seemed irrational at best, to be placing people with mobility issues in above ground level flats, if it was taken as a suggestion - involving the height, and general lack of safety netting (here I referenced the iPhone manufacturers placement of netting around their building) - it made more sense.