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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to wonder if this mum calling for Sleeping Beauty to be banned is going a step too far, or not?

235 replies

ShatnersWig · 23/11/2017 12:30

Don't worry, I've not linked to the Daily Fail.

metro.co.uk/2017/11/23/mother-wants-sleeping-beauty-pulled-from-school-because-it-teaches-bad-lesson-about-consent-7101539/

Is this taking things a step too far or has she got a point?

OP posts:
LemonysSnicket · 23/11/2017 12:58

I did a thesis on the pedagogical effects of faliry tales ( essentially the subliminal teachings) and the results were terrifying. Everything from shame over menstruation ( Andersons the Red Shoes) to yes ... accepting appropriatr rape ( SB). I think the disney versions are ok though tbh x

Jilly12345 · 23/11/2017 13:01

I guess we have to re-write history now! Ban all the fairy tales, burn all the books by Jane Austen, the Bronte Sisters, etc etc, (in fact, burn down all the libraries ; better to be safe than sorry!) Burn all the DVDs and videos that have any man touching any woman, (or even being within 3 feet of her,) ban Santa (coming into people homes at night with vulnerable children and women in there!) And take all dramas and soaps off tv, and all films, that involve a man and woman in the same scene, as he is probably wanting to sexually molest her.

For fuck's fucking SAKE! Hmm

IamPickleRick · 23/11/2017 13:01

LemonysSnicket, that sounds SO interesting! Fairy tales have always intrigued me, I find them really macabre.

LoverOfCake · 23/11/2017 13:03

"Belle kisses the beast when he's comatose. Just saying." and the beast was a beast because he was a horrible prince and the (female) witch turned him into one.

Blahblahblahzeeblah · 23/11/2017 13:04

In the Disney version they've already met and fallen in love. He's been told he has to kiss her to save her - I see no issue with this. The original sounds horrific though.

mydogisthebest · 23/11/2017 13:08

Absolutely ridiculous. The woman is pathetic. It's a fairy story for goodness sake.

Maybe we should just ban all music, books, plays etc then the pathetic whingers who object at just about everything might be happy

FlowerPot1234 · 23/11/2017 13:08

Do we ban the Bible for the rape of 14 year old Mary by Gabriel? She didn't consent did she?

Jilly12345 · 23/11/2017 13:09

Yep, the bible too! ^ Forgot that one!

eddiemairswife · 23/11/2017 13:11

Red Riding Hood's mother should be reported to Social Services for letting her daughter go off alone through a wolf-inhabited wood.

Branleuse · 23/11/2017 13:12

i see what shes saying, but I dont think children need to be protected from fairy tales, and theyve already been watered down and sanitised to a massive extent. I dont think stories or songs with slightly problematic themes should be censored,

Icantreachthepretzels · 23/11/2017 13:14

Without seeing the specific version of the book, surely it's hard to see whether or not it should be banned? In the ones where she is asleep for a hundred years and it is a total stranger who hacks through the forest of thorns ... well tbh it was always the thought of kissing someone a hundred years old that made me queasy, rather than the fact she hadn't agreed to it, but I suppose an argument could be made.

If it's more like the Disney film and is made explicitly clear that this is man she is in love with - then would the woman divorce her husband if he kissed her whilst she slept? (just a quick peck, I mean, like it is the film.)

I was going to post that it sounded a lot like the woman had suddenly discovered feminism but hadn't quite got round the nuances yet. When I read the story she said she would never have given it a second thought if it wasn't for recent media coverage and #metoo. So yeah, pretty much what I thought.

It's simple - if you're in the kind of loving relationship and you know where each others boundaries are, then a quick kiss with a sleeping partner is probably not that bad - if you both know you're OK with it. If you've just hacked your way through a forest of thorns to find an enchanted castle and a sleeping princess who has been stuck that way for a hundred years - a kiss might not be ideal (think of the morning breath!) but it may be the only way to wake her up. If neither of these are the scenario you are in - don't go round kissing sleeping people.

PumpkinSquash · 23/11/2017 13:14
Biscuit
NatMatCat · 23/11/2017 13:14

Clearly that story would never be written for children now.

I do think it's necessary for children to have knowledge of the basic fairy tale plots. So much other fiction is based on them and won't make sense without knowing the original. So you could say that this book is a kind of cultural primer.

thegrinchreaper · 23/11/2017 13:16

I think she's gone a bit far. Folk tales are far removed from the original versions, because times have changed. They were meant to serve as warnings in most cases, e.g. Little Red Riding Hood was all about sexual awakening and teaching girls to stay away from the sorts of men who would love and leave, taking away their good families' reputations.
I think fairy tales have been watered down proportionally in keeping with culture and society today.

Candlelight234 · 23/11/2017 13:17

I watched beauty & beast last year with my DD and was appalled at the dreadful message it gives. This has completely passed me by as s child though, but through an adult lens this story was a dreadful abuse of power.

Dagnabit · 23/11/2017 13:21

I'm more upset about the fact that animals NEVER help with the housework!

kissmethere · 23/11/2017 13:23

Yes it's too far. She's making a point about the consent thing but to ask for a ban 🙄

DeleteOrDecay · 23/11/2017 13:23

Dear god. Do people really think that fairy tales teach young boys about consent and non consent? Really?

Maybe not on it’s own but if you think about it this sort of thing could/does contribute to a wider picture. Rape culture doesn’t exist in a vacuum after all.

Not sure how I feel, I can see her point I suppose but then again it’s not exactly being taught as real life. It’s a story and the kids know that.

grannytomine · 23/11/2017 13:25

Kissing isn't always sexual, I've kissed my children when they were sleeping as young children. Nothing sexual I can assure you. People sometimes kiss a loved one who is terminally ill and can't give consent either.

astoundedgoat · 23/11/2017 13:26

Beauty & the Beast is worse. DH believes that Gaston is actually the hero of B&theB - he loves Belle, and is realistically the only man in her town who actually does love her, and when she is kidnapped and most certainly and provably being held without her consent by the local lord with a sort of "Droit du seigneur" kind of vibe, HE'S the one who gets a rescue party together to save her. How is he supposed to know that she falls in love with her captor? Anyway, he ends up the bad guy quite unfairly.

FireCracker2 · 23/11/2017 13:29

But in the story she was in a persistent vegetative state and could only be 'cured' by loves first kiss.So the prince was a kind of doctor treating a comatose patient

Eliza9917 · 23/11/2017 13:33

^Plot summary
A peasant girl named Karen is adopted by a rich old lady after her mother's death and grows up vain and spoiled. Before her adoption, Karen had a rough pair of red shoes; now she has her adoptive mother buy her a pair of red shoes fit for a princess. Karen is so enamored of her new shoes that she wears them to church, but the old lady scolds her: it's highly improper and she must only wear black shoes in church from now on. But next Sunday, Karen cannot resist the urge to put the red shoes on again. As she is about to enter the church, she meets a mysterious old soldier with a red beard. "Oh, what beautiful shoes for dancing," the soldier says. "Never come off when you dance," he tells the shoes, and he taps the sole of each with his hand. After church, Karen cannot resist taking a few dance steps, and off she goes, as though the shoes controlled her, but she finally manages to take them off. One day, after her adoptive mother becomes ill, Karen leaves her alone and goes off to a ball in town in her red shoes. She begins to dance, but this time the shoes won't come off. They continue to dance, night and day, rain or shine, through fields and meadows, and through brambles and briers that tear at Karen's limbs. She can't even attend her adoptive mother's funeral. An angel appears to her, bearing a sword, and condemns her to dance even after she dies, as a warning to vain children everywhere. Karen begs for mercy but the red shoes take her away before she hears the angel's reply. Karen finds an executioner and asks him to chop off her feet. He does so but the shoes continue to dance, even with Karen's amputated feet inside them. The executioner gives her a pair of wooden feet and crutches, and teaches her the criminals' psalm. Thinking that she has suffered enough for the red shoes, Karen decides to go to church so people can see her. Yet her amputated feet, still in the red shoes, dance before her, barring the way. The following Sunday she tries again, thinking she is at least as good as the others in church, but again the dancing red shoes bar the way. Karen gets a job as a maid in the parsonage, but when Sunday comes she dares not go to church. Instead she sits alone at home and prays to God for help. The angel reappears, now bearing a spray of roses, and gives Karen the mercy she asked for: her heart becomes so filled with sunshine, peace, and joy that it bursts. Her soul flies on sunshine to Heaven, where no one mentions the red shoes.^

Eliza9917 · 23/11/2017 13:33

^Plot summary
A peasant girl named Karen is adopted by a rich old lady after her mother's death and grows up vain and spoiled. Before her adoption, Karen had a rough pair of red shoes; now she has her adoptive mother buy her a pair of red shoes fit for a princess. Karen is so enamored of her new shoes that she wears them to church, but the old lady scolds her: it's highly improper and she must only wear black shoes in church from now on. But next Sunday, Karen cannot resist the urge to put the red shoes on again. As she is about to enter the church, she meets a mysterious old soldier with a red beard. "Oh, what beautiful shoes for dancing," the soldier says. "Never come off when you dance," he tells the shoes, and he taps the sole of each with his hand. After church, Karen cannot resist taking a few dance steps, and off she goes, as though the shoes controlled her, but she finally manages to take them off. One day, after her adoptive mother becomes ill, Karen leaves her alone and goes off to a ball in town in her red shoes. She begins to dance, but this time the shoes won't come off. They continue to dance, night and day, rain or shine, through fields and meadows, and through brambles and briers that tear at Karen's limbs. She can't even attend her adoptive mother's funeral. An angel appears to her, bearing a sword, and condemns her to dance even after she dies, as a warning to vain children everywhere. Karen begs for mercy but the red shoes take her away before she hears the angel's reply. Karen finds an executioner and asks him to chop off her feet. He does so but the shoes continue to dance, even with Karen's amputated feet inside them. The executioner gives her a pair of wooden feet and crutches, and teaches her the criminals' psalm. Thinking that she has suffered enough for the red shoes, Karen decides to go to church so people can see her. Yet her amputated feet, still in the red shoes, dance before her, barring the way. The following Sunday she tries again, thinking she is at least as good as the others in church, but again the dancing red shoes bar the way. Karen gets a job as a maid in the parsonage, but when Sunday comes she dares not go to church. Instead she sits alone at home and prays to God for help. The angel reappears, now bearing a spray of roses, and gives Karen the mercy she asked for: her heart becomes so filled with sunshine, peace, and joy that it bursts. Her soul flies on sunshine to Heaven, where no one mentions the red shoes.^

Eliza9917 · 23/11/2017 13:34

Pressed enter too soon

@LemonysSnicket
I did a thesis on the pedagogical effects of faliry tales ( essentially the subliminal teachings) and the results were terrifying. Everything from shame over menstruation ( Andersons the Red Shoes) to yes ... accepting appropriatr rape ( SB). I think the disney versions are ok though tbh x

How is that story shame about menstruation?

mintich · 23/11/2017 13:36

Perhaps if it's thought of as a kiss of life, and not a snog!