Or is this a form of control

[Sandbrook]

Lost my temper with DH this evening. Left the house for a walk to calm down, was a few hours ago but I'm still stewing over this and unable to understand.

Whenever I suggest a day out, taking kids somewhere, time together, a meal, cinema anything, his first response is no. Second response why?
He never suggests days out anywhere to anything.
But... and here's the confusing bit. He will then a few hours or a day later say, fine then we'll go. Always.
I suggested over dinner we take kids to a Christmas parade tomorrow. He says no, then why. He says I don't have to always take the kids places. Fine. I get that I like to keep them/me busy and try new experiences, make memories. And I love Christmas so like getting into the mood early. So I suggest then we go by bus as rural living means kids don't get to travel to city by bus that often.
Again the answer is no. Why I ask? Fun for kids, no parking hassles. He just said he hates buses, we'll drive.
I said he can drive and we'll meet him there. So he got annoyed asking why, why do we have to get bus even after I explained kids enjoy it, why not?
I lost my temper so left house for a walk but hours later I'm still annoyed.

This happens with everything I try to organise. Why...no...why...no.
Then a few hours later or the next day, he'll say ok we'll go. So all that bad feeling for nothing.
I feel like I need his approval for any decision I make about days out.

Previous time before tonight was during the week on way back from visiting family. I suggested we stop for food on way home. He said no. I'm busy thinking about what's in fridge to make when we get in and he pulls into restaurant car park and said, well you wanted to eat didn't you?

Is this slow form of torture a kind of control or am I reading too much into it. While I was walking this evening my chest was pounding and felt tight because of the tension this simple conversation caused. It's slowly driving me insane.
If IABU, can you suggest ways we don't end up arguing over a simple family day out?
Thanks

Pp who picked up on my less than pleasant post where I suggest that your DH might be slow witted is right. I was being unessesarily flippant because I felt the weight of your distress. I too thought 'maybe he's Aspergers' but gave myself a mental slap because being an autism mum surrounded by relatives and friends on the spectrum I now see it every where and I'm trying not to diagnose the entire world. It's difficult because something like this does hint at it.

If he needs 10 hours to process a request due to anxiety (Aspergers induced or not) and you can ignore the 'no' knowing you'll go ahead alone even if he doesn't eventually come round maybe it'll be less stressful for you. However, don't let him rule you / your kids lives. Accidentally controlling is still controlling.

There appears to be a bigger problem than him just being oppositional it reads as if there is a lot going on with him.

The fact that he is obsessed with how clean the house needs to be mixed in with opposing anything you suggest. Then not having the imagination to plan or think about doing anything different in your week all adds up to a worrying picture.

The effect is that he is causing stress for you and your children not just with days out but every day. You say you ignore him getting stressed but the behaviour is still witnessed by your children. Does he get on the floor and play freely with them or is it in a controlled follow a games rules type play?

Do not let someone effect your mental wellbeing.

I can recognise so much of my soon to be ex husband in this post. It was horrible, and I didn't recognise the fully extent of how controlling it was until I left. It was so draining and life was no fun with him.

I wouldn't bother suggesting it to him, I'd announce it to him. Make it clear he is welcome to come too but you and the children are going out either way.

"Why take the children out"? Erm... because it's a nice thing to do with them? He sounds like a miserable sod.

Why does he later do whst you want? Because you aren't talking abou it or trying to compromise. You chuck a strop, storm out of the house and you imply you then sulk. Of course you get your way. You're a stroppy teenager still.

WhatwouldAryado - you totally miss the point. This is not about the OP getting her way. She’s suggesting to do something for the benefit of her children, which requires effort. He doesn’t want to make the effort and makes her feel bad for asking. He doesn’t have to go. She just wants to do something as a family.

My ex was like this. I left him.

Got tired of feeling resentful about being with someone who didn't ever want to do anything and wasn't prepared to meet me half-way on things. I had to organise everything and nine times out of ten he would duck out of things at the last minute with some spurious excuse.

It may or may not be control: it may just be laziness and lack of imagination. The anxiety excuse doesn't really cut it for me either I get that some people find spontaneity stressful etc but if you are like that you need to find ways around it plan more early etc.

Ultimately I just thought that life is too short to be with someone who doesn't want to do anything other than work, sleep and watch TV and isn't prepared to compromise on this. What's the point of being in a family unit with someone with whom you never do anything?

The more you write the more it sounds like anxiety. I would do what pp have said and stop asking him to make a decision and just tell him what you are doing and if he wants to join you he can or if he doesn't he can do his own thing.

I don't think its to do with lack of imagination; more an excess of imagination. I can always think of a million things that can go awry with one of DH's plans. They don't even enter his head.

I think your DH needs to read around Aspergers as it may give him a greater understanding of why he feels how he feels, that his responses aren't reasonable but driven by anxiety and that others don't necessarily experience the world the way he does.

Having our DDs diagnosed with AS has opened my DH's eyes to some of his behaviour, the root of it and how it affects others. Some of that behaviour could be described as emotionally abusive at times but it often happened because he lacked theory of mind, i.e. the ability to recognise that someone else may not know, think or feel the same things as you.

It might be anxiety, and / or aspergers. It might help him to know whether he has these issues.

However it is of no use until he actually addresses it and tries to meet the OP at least in the middle. Labels aren’t an excuse to expect another human being to take up the slack.

At least OP he does come around. And yet, it isn’t that hard to let you stop off for food at a shop. He could have sat in the car and waited for you. Why don’t you make it regular, every Saturday we will stay in, every Sunday we will go out after lunch, and every Friday we will go out as a couple?

However it is of no use until he actually addresses it and tries to meet the OP at least in the middle. Labels aren’t an excuse to expect another human being to take up the slack.

FGS! Where did I say it was an excuse or he didn't need to bother addressing it? I was suggesting he read about it precisely so that he could understand and address his own behaviour.

There's little point in the OP understanding where the behaviour is coming from if he doesn't. He needs to change his responses and, in order to do that, it would help if he understood them.

Ugh. He sounds vile. Yes it is a form of control. He has no idea how tormenting and disappointed he must make you feel only to suddenly change his mind and get you back on side. Then making you feel happy and grateful.

Horrible man.

My dp does this to an extent. I’ll suggest this event or that event or oh shall we go out for the day. He’ll say no, but will complain we don’t do/go anywhere. Or he will suggest 3 hours later to go for food.
Now I say ‘me and ds are going here. You going to come?’ He normally says no, so me and ds go off and have fun on our own.
I think, for him he finds it very stressful/hard work to take ds out. He hates having to change ds when he’s out (make worse when the only facilities are in the ladies) so just doesn’t go out for long periods of time with him. Ds is also intolerant to lots of things and I don’t think dp likes to ask what’s suitable when we stop for food etc.

I know it’s not great that you have to manage his behaviour, but in the short term at least it should give you an idea of if he is coping better and being less annoying if you can manage it.

My DH is fed up of having to manage me too, but at least I’m trying and I got my diagnosis (High functioning autism in other words Aspergers) and I’m getting support. I would suggest you push him to at least read about Aspergers if you can.

I agree with the PP who said about email communication, this is one of my “reasonable adjustments” at work, it prevents me getting annoyed at people who suddenly spring changes on me face to face, I can read it and process it in my own time.

Oh and I totally agree about the cleaning obsession, let him get on with cleaning if he wants it just so.

Err..I do this! I hate being surprised, so my automatic reaction to anything is ‘no’, but when I have time to think about it then I’m usually fine with it and accept it. Never thought to check how much it pissed DH off

I hate having stuff sprung on me. There am I happily contemplating my Saturday and DP will suddenly say "I thought about doing XXX"

Immediately I am thinking "Oh but I need to get the school uniforms washed - oh but I could do them on Sunday I suppose - oh and I have to go to the supermarket as I don't have any potatoes but I suppose I could put an Ocado order in.. "by which time DP is having a strop because I haven't immediately jumped up with praise and enthusiasm for his brilliant idea.

Ideas need to be discussed together. Plans need time to be processed - how will they affect the rest of the weekend. I also want to feel like I have an input without feeling like the bad guy every time I say no.

I do it differently. I float ideas or I plan things on my ow with the kids and give him an option - and time - to decide whether he wants to come along.

Agree with PP I hate having things sprung on me too. If he's anything like me the 'no' will be automatic because he's disappointed his own plans have been ruined (and yes those plans can be no plans at all!), then when he thinks about it he doesn't want you/your DC to miss out so he goes along with it for your/their benefit.

@Sandbrook

OMG reading this I was transported back in time, my STBXH did this all the time! I used to go everywhere without him. I look back at that time and see, for me, how my H was checking out of our marriage and family. Basically the rot had set in.

Just imagine your suggestions feeling to him like a slap in the face and you might be more understanding if he needs time to get over the shock of them before he can react appropriately to what you actually said!...

He sounds like a selfish and manipulative douche-bag - i doubt it has anything to do with anxiety or even asd traits.

He behaves like it's only his feelings and decisions that matter and the rest of the household have to abide by them

He's trying to bully/wear you down to the point where you just accept that it's 'his way or no way'.
Re the restaurant/food incident, when he said 'no' you should have pointed out to him that other members of the household did want to go, same with everything else.

It also sounds to me like he's trying to take credit for all the 'fun' things hence saying 'no' to you and then 'coming up with it himself days/hours later'.
The cynic in me wonders whether he's trying to condition the dc into associating fun things with him and boring/no-fun with you.

He's shown he's capable of forward planning and arranging days out/events with his hobbies/friends - he chooses not to do this with you/your family unit.

The world doesn't revolve around him and he needs that spelling out to him rather bluntly.
Longterm - is this the kind of person you want to be with?

I don't know, If her DH has Aspergers, would he suddenly rock up at the restaurant? Surely the decision, which he made whilst driving, would have taken some thinking about if he Aspergers? I'm not buying he's got SN, I think it's a control thing, maybe a resentment thing. Maybe because you do all the planning with the Mental Load, he thinks aye, hang on a minute here, I'm the daddy here!

I think the reason he changes his mind is because he know that YOU know better OP! So he said no to the restaurant because he wanted to get home quickly and eating would prolong the agony of being out (for whatever reason?) but he KNEW, the shit would hit the fan when you got home and he'd have to help with finding/making food!?

Bollocks - he does what his dw wants and doesn't ever paint it as his idea from what the OP has said. He gets stressd out about tidying up in front of the kids, not just in front of his dw. He's not trying to take credit for the fun ideas, he's not stopping anyone doing anything, as the OP has not cited a single example of a time when his reaction has prevented the family doing what she wants to do with them. He just spoils the fun of the idea initially by not immediately agreeing it's a great idea - because it doesn't feel immediately like a great idea to him, he needs to get used to it and understand why something he doesn't like the sound of would nevertheless bring pleasure to the rest of his family and probably therefore be more fun to him than his initial feelings would indicate. Frankly, getting the bus to somewhere doesn't sound fun to me, either, but if his dw thinks the kids will like it, then he'll probably swallow the shitty bus ride, and if it is clearly giving the kids pleasure, he might even enjoy it...