Or is this a form of control

[Sandbrook]

Lost my temper with DH this evening. Left the house for a walk to calm down, was a few hours ago but I'm still stewing over this and unable to understand.

Whenever I suggest a day out, taking kids somewhere, time together, a meal, cinema anything, his first response is no. Second response why?
He never suggests days out anywhere to anything.
But... and here's the confusing bit. He will then a few hours or a day later say, fine then we'll go. Always.
I suggested over dinner we take kids to a Christmas parade tomorrow. He says no, then why. He says I don't have to always take the kids places. Fine. I get that I like to keep them/me busy and try new experiences, make memories. And I love Christmas so like getting into the mood early. So I suggest then we go by bus as rural living means kids don't get to travel to city by bus that often.
Again the answer is no. Why I ask? Fun for kids, no parking hassles. He just said he hates buses, we'll drive.
I said he can drive and we'll meet him there. So he got annoyed asking why, why do we have to get bus even after I explained kids enjoy it, why not?
I lost my temper so left house for a walk but hours later I'm still annoyed.

This happens with everything I try to organise. Why...no...why...no.
Then a few hours later or the next day, he'll say ok we'll go. So all that bad feeling for nothing.
I feel like I need his approval for any decision I make about days out.

Previous time before tonight was during the week on way back from visiting family. I suggested we stop for food on way home. He said no. I'm busy thinking about what's in fridge to make when we get in and he pulls into restaurant car park and said, well you wanted to eat didn't you?

Is this slow form of torture a kind of control or am I reading too much into it. While I was walking this evening my chest was pounding and felt tight because of the tension this simple conversation caused. It's slowly driving me insane.
If IABU, can you suggest ways we don't end up arguing over a simple family day out?
Thanks

"Control and anxiety go together like a horse and carriage"

Oh god yes! I NEED to be in control because I'm anxious about stuff. If I'm not in control it's because I have decided not to be but I wll still need to look into things so I am not totally surprised and caught unawares, for example I'd go online and look at a menu before agreeing to go to meal out somewhere, if I am in charge, I'll pick somewhere 'safe'.

My dh can be like this quite often. He doesn't have any underlying issues, he's just plain cantankerous and awkward.

I think it's controlling. I know someone who when his wife asks him if, for instance, he'll drive her to the station, says 'I'll think about it', and then won't decide until she begs him to do it. Then he often will do it, but he just wants to make her beg. I honestly would have left a man who treated me like that, it's symptomatic of a lack of respect for her time.

The other thing that bothers me in your posts is that you say talking to him doesn't go well - that's a red flag. You should be able to talk to your partner about anything. How does he react when you bring it up?

I've just got my DH to read this thread and he's nodding in some recognition. The person with the default setting of "no" in our relationship is me. I don't react well to changes of plan and new things. Though like the OP's DH, I come around when I've had time to think about it.

I think with me it's anxiety, rather than AS, though I suspect my DD has some ASD traits and my nephew is quite badly affected.

DH says he just manages me now: gives me lots of notice, tells me how he sees the weekend going, books things anyway because he knows I'll come round. And I decided a couple of years ago to try to say yes to everything he plans. So I do, even when it feels bad, because I know given time, I'll come round and it'll be fine. Still struggle with spontanaeity though. Strange cos I wasn't always like this.

Very interesting discussion. My ex was (emotionally) abusive, and used to do this. Before I saw it for what it really was, I used to joke about him needing a gestation period to get his head round anything I suggested.

I got so used to him saying no to things or mocking any ideas of mine, I used to make sure I gave him ample time to mull over it, and tried not to spring things on him, as he couldn’t cope with spontaneity and anything short notice would always result in NO. So what would happen is let’s say for example I suggested something like, ‘how about we take the kids to see the Christmas lights next Sunday?’, he’d say no I’m busy that weekend, won’t have time blah blah. Then closer to the date he’d announce he thought Sunday would be a good day to go and see the lights. As if it were his idea all along, so sort of like taking control back.

Anyway I used to think it was irritating but not controlling, until it reached the point his need to control increased and he became more and more abusive.

Funnily enough he suffered from anxiety attacks (at work) too. I used to wonder if he was on the spectrum, but now I think he was just a plain old abusive narcissistic arse.

says 'I'll think about it', and then won't decide until she begs him to do it.

That isn't what he's doing though. He doesn't need the OP to beg. He just needs time to process a new plan.

I agree that anxiety and control go together. The more anxious they are and the more unpredictable the world seems, the more control my DDs need and the more resistant to change they are. This isn't about them being unpleasant or wanting everything their own way; it's just a coping mechanism for when the world doesn't feel manageable.

TinklyLittleLaugh and her DH seem to have found a good way to manage things which include her recognising the impact on her family of her resistance to change and deciding to mitigate it.

I noticed the phrase "He is a great Dad though" cropped up. This made me feel uneasy about this man. Did anyone else spot this ? Apologies to the OP, I realise this may be unhelpful, just a gut feeling I can't shake off.

marylennoxscowl if I remind him that he does this all the time he gets annoyed. Gives out that I want to do things all the time. That's not necessarily true as I like to relax on the weekends as much as the next person but have 4 kids in the house from Friday afternoon to Sunday night does leave room for outings of some sort yes?

He works long hours from home and frequently says he needs to get out of the house and will when it comes to his hobbies so I'd appreciate the same flexibility when it comes to family time.
I work throughout the week outside the home so it's important to me to have some time together.

If it is a form of anxiety like previous posters have suggested, surely this should be diagnosed/medicated or a visit to a GP at the very least. Both of which he would absolutely not consider. So what's the compromise?
There's also the issue of being anal about house cleaning which is and has been causing massive strain on our family. Sorry if this is a dripfeed, I'm thinking as I type

I think I've had to try very hard to curb my controlling tendencies. I'm really struggled with parenting when my kids were teens: I found it utterly hellish.

And much of that was probably because of my lack of control of the situation. I don't mean in the shallow sense of imposing a 9 pm curfew or any of that sort of nonsense, but in the more profound sense of not being able to control the type of person they were and their attitudes and choices. It sounds horrid I know, and I really had to keep a grip on myself. Stemming I think from being very anxious about them messing up their lives.

Now they are at uni and through uni, our relationships are really good again; I still worry but I have learned to let go.

I feel I have to keep an eye on myself though; I think I easily have the potential to be a super controlling Mil.

Yes, I know they're not exactly the same, but whether it's malicious or not, it's controlling and rude. If you know someone needs to be controlling due to anxiety then you can make allowances, but we don't know if that's the case here.

I dunno Sandbrook, I've never been to the GP about anxiety; I can see where your OH is coming from, I wouldn't want to be medicated. I think anxiety has negative connotations to men too; the word kind of implies weakness.

tinkly how did you realise your issue with control and how do you manage it?
Sounds like you've worked hard with it

In what way is he anal about house cleaning? I don't have particularly high standards or anything, but if DH is doing a chore differently to how I would do it, in a different order or using different equipment, then I have to go out of the room because I have a massive need to make him do it my way.

Bloody hell. Thinking about all this and writing it down I sound very hard work. DH is a saint.

A mental health issue isn't a get out of jail free card for behaving like an arse repeatedly. You need to be willing to put your family first and accept help, not insist you're right and everyone else is wrong, which is damaging to the OP's mental health too.

It doesn't have to be medication, it could be therapy.

Tinkly has taught herself strategies for reducing the strain on her partner, not just carried on regardless.

tinkly at least you recognise it and work on it, surely that's a good thing.
He doesn't care how anything is cleaned, the place just has to be clean all the time. I'm not a messy person and love a clean house too but not to his standard which I recognised with the help of a councellor years ago that me struggling to maintain his level of cleanliness was having a detrimental effect on me. So now I let him get on with it. If he wants to get stressed over a messy house because the kids are playing I let him. That's his issue.
I can clean when they are finished playing, he gets stressed.

Honestly Sandbrook I think it was looking at my DN with ASD and realising I felt very anxious and out of control in the same way if things were a bit uncertain.

I used to be very shouty and gradually realised what my triggers were. Things like getting ready for a day out or holiday would have me in melt down. It is all about the anxiety.

My DD has had counselling for anxiety at uni and we've talked a lot about managing techniques. I'm pretty sure that the women in my family have suffered from anxiety over four generations. Whether it's genetic or a daughter learning behaviour from a mother I don't know. I was actually really reckless in my youth.

“I suggested we stop for food on way home. He said no. I'm busy thinking about what's in fridge to make when we get in and he pulls into restaurant car park and said, well you wanted to eat didn't you ?”

This worries me. He immediately implies that you are unreasonable when he suddenly decides to do that thing he had explicitly refused to do. It is rude and gaslight-y. he does the opposite of what he said he was going to do and you are apparently supposed to forget that he ever said no.

The “processing” thing I can understand, but not the attitude

The attitude must be wearing. If he’s inclined to just declare things crap without experience and be pompous about other people’s jobs and lives, it’s just a crap ton of negativity spread about the place. Is he positive about anything?

His cleaning needs can be an issue if he’s unable to manage them without impacting negatively on the people around him.

A lot of posts have compared some of the tendencies to AS, which is always a possibility. But it’s also possible that he’s an arse.

Are there any positives to your relationship?

My ex used to do this as a control thing. Then when I tried to keep things normal for DD and would invite him out to eat with us (even though I didn't want him there) he would say no to "punish" me. Except he wasn't punishing me, he was punishing DD.

When I gave up asking as he always said no, then he got shitty that he wasn't invited every time we went out.

I'm not seeing how you aren't seeing the anxiety, Sandbrook. He gets uptight about mess and cleanliness and riled when there is a change of plan, he is OK with his own set hobbies which he has planned for, but not good at dealing with something non-routine. He doesn't sound deliberately controlling and abusive of you from what you have said, he sounds like he has a fear of feeling out of control generally - ie anxiety. As for turning that into a medical issue - pills wouldn't turn him into a chilled out lover of day trips. Clearly he can get his head around the need to go out and do stuff with his family, as he does, so he is managing his anxiety. He simply needs to acknowledge that an immediate negative verbal reaction to every request is not acceptable, even if those are the thoughts going through his head. Other than that, there does seem to be an issue of compatibility here, if he likes to feel safe at home and stick to set routines and you like to be spontaneous and go out, as it will always be the case that you go out more than he wants to and he wants to stay in more than you want to.

By the way, does he complain generally that you want to go out too much, or is that just in response to you complaining that he is negative about everything you suggest? Ie is it a response to him feeling attacked for being a negative git, or an active and ongoing complaint of his?

He sounds exhausting my love. And you've got 4 kids on top of all this?
So you're expected to clean to a certain standard, aren't 'supposed' to plan days out, are told no when you're out in the car and say you're hungry (then he gets shitty with you when he deigns to 'allow' you to eat) that would be an instant divorce for me. Dh knows not to come between me and food
What are the positives? I say that gently, because yes, to me, he sounds controlling, and, dare I say it, emotionally abusive.
He may well have MH issues - that's not a free pass to be a dick

I see it more as he has an issue with anything, which is out of his control rather than being controlling over you.

He can control his hobbies and possibly doesn’t even think about the affect it has in you. Or your mental load.

My friend's dh is a bit like this. As is their son. Not the ocd though. They really struggle with change not of their creation and her dh stays in a job when he could get better because it’s safe and it’s what he knows.

Their son hasn’t been tested for autism as she doesn’t think he reaches the threshold as he doesn’t display many behaviours attributed to asd.

Your dh could have some signs of asd or Aspergers. Ocd tendencies and difficulty with change can be signs. I’m not saying he is on the spectrum by any stretch of the imagination. However, I wouldn’t assume he is doing this deliberately to piss you off.

Can you write him an email and explain to him how his behaviour affects you? It would give him time to process it. He cannot change what he doesn’t acknowledge and I think talking to him will probably lead to “no” and upset you further.