Babies in Childcare - Honest Opinions Please

[ChesterBelloc]

I've read several threads recently in which people stated that so long as a baby is competently cared for in a suitable environment, it makes no difference to the child whether the adult(s) in question are the baby's parent(s) or childcare professionals.

Do you believe this?

(I'm not asking for yet another debate about the extent to which 'stay-at-home parenting' may be detrimental to women's quest for equality/career progression/intellectual stimulation etc etc. There's enough on these boards already about that.)

I'm asking whether people genuinely believe that babies have/should have no stake in the discussion; whether they think that it makes no difference to the babies themselves whether they are with their parents all day or with a nursery/childminder - and if there is a qualitative difference, which is the better option, from the child's perspective.

I'm genuinely curious to hear people's views, not trying to be goady (though fully expect to be flamed for even raising this question, due to the possible implications and inferences that could be extrapolated from it). Thank you for reading thus far!

Thankfully Crumbs1 your children exist only in your mind, like your master bedroom, but if they were real, I would have concerns about them due to some of the views you display on here.

Childcare has been used for centuries. It seriously is not a 'new thing'. Mums used to shove baby in a pram and put it in the garden to get on with housework. Children used to look after younger siblings. I would say that is more neglectful than putting a child in a nursery.

*It does not matter if you never change your child's nappy just as long as you are paying for them.

You always get this kind of ridiculous post, too, suggesting that parents who use full-time childcare do no parenting at all. Do babies who go to nursery not poo at night or at the weekend?

The baby will always prefer their parents over anybody else. That's very obvious OP and any other idea is ludicrous.

My DD is 18 months old and has been going to her childminder since she was 9 months old. CM has a daughter of her own who is 4 months older than DD and CM looks after older children after school. So a busy environment, filled with different age groups and personalities. DD's cousin who is only 2 months younger than DD is cared for full time by his dad, really no interactions with other children or adults besides his parents. The difference between the 2 of them is frankly staggering. DD is confident and friendly (to the point she will rugby tackle a 6year old at soft play with the sole objective of cuddling them) linguistically DD is streets ahead and from a personal independence perspective I reckon given the choice, sometimes she'd rather I just buggered off out of the house and left her to it (to clarify, I never have nor ever will leave DD alone in the house until she's old enough). Her cousin clings to his mum and dad like a limpet, screeches rather than saying words and is fearful of other children. So, from my personal perspective I believe placing DD in a childcare situation from a young age has absolutely benefited her. Namely because there isn't a snowballs chance in hell I or my partner could provide her with the same level of social interactions she has access to via her CM, we just don't know anyone with kids. Obviously every child is different, but the ability to interact greatly helps children develop and childcare really seems to facilitate that in my opinion.

How qualified to look after children is the average stay at home mum then?

Btw my childs key worker has a degree in early years. As do most of the other staff i believe. Oh and most of them are mothers, which id say is useful.

My DP is a SAHD. We still send DC to a nursery a few mornings a week and have done since about 13 months. She spends time with other children which she visibly enjoys. She likes the interaction. She likes the teachers. Things like sitting in a circle singing in a group or painting or learning to share - you can do those in groups sure, but esp in somewhere like London they will be different children every time.

There are things that parents can't offer alone. There are things that nursery can't offer alone. Everyone is just trying to do their best.

Mums used to shove baby in a pram and put it in the garden to get on with housework.

Yes, absolutely - the idea that looking after a baby is a full-time job and that spending hours of your day playing with and staring into the eyes of an infant is a necessity is a very modern one. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, but let's not pretend that all children always got this in the past and that babies not having their mother's sole and undivided attention 24 hours a day is a new experiment with unknown consequences. Almost all parenting through history would be deemed completely inadequate by modern standards.

I do think you can sometimes tell which older children have been in nursery from under age three
Nervousness bad behaviour and a sense of aggression not in all of them of course
But certainly a good handful
Perhaps this fades over time but certainly with children around the age of four five you can sometimes see which ones have been in nursery from a very young age

I do worry about the future of this country as I can see things getting worse, can picture hugewarehouse type buildings on industrial estates turning to baby rearing factories
Where baby and small children because more and more institutionalised from a younger and younger age
And the babies effectively in the future being brought up by the government in somehideous low quality low cost setting

Do babies who go to nursery not poo at night or at the weekend?

Yeah, did you not know this Margaret? Maybe you would if you weren't out gallivanting and being selfish by wanting to put food on the table.

Perhaps this fades over time but certainly with children around the age of four five you can sometimes see which ones have been in nursery from a very young age

I would stake my house on you not being able to do this in a genuine double-blind trial, where you had no prior knowledge of who had and hadn't been to nursery. I strongly suspect confirmation bias here - you know which children have been to nursery and ascribe any 'problem' to them to this.

Really lard i would say the opposite is true. Children who dont go to nursery or childminders and spend most of their time with parents alone dont know how to socialise or share and can turn to aggression to get their own way.

Its probably an unpopular opinion but bringing a child up as if the universe revolves around them is only going to make for a self centred entitled child who doesnt understand compromise.

How qualified to look after children is the average stay at home mum then?

Exactly. Having unprotected sex is hardly validation for being an ideal parent. Given how much state intervention, SS input etc goes on it shows just how many aren't.

Childcare professionals are very different, qualified and following standards.

Presumably OP your husband/partner doesn't work either so that he isn't damaging your child by having a job?

Always amazing to see too that the excuse a child needs to be with its parents is used but as soon as the free hours preschool kick in or nursery year the child is shipped off to school. Teachers mustn't count

Yes, absolutely - the idea that looking after a baby is a full-time job and that spending hours of your day playing with and staring into the eyes of an infant is a necessity is a very modern one. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, but let's not pretend that all children always got this in the past and that babies not having their mother's sole and undivided attention 24 hours a day is a new experiment with unknown consequences. Almost all parenting through history would be deemed completely inadequate by modern standards.

This is a new one. What crackpot idea is this?

It’s a tough question. I have read things that say babies are unaffected as long as they have someone to make a bond with. To be completely honest, they can’t get that at nursery? I’ve worked in nurseries before and it’s really all hands on deck and if a baby is crying it’s whoever is closest that picks baby up so obv could be anyone. Don’t think that’s good for secure attachments. As a disclaimer, I’m a childminder at the moment but it’s defo easier with regard to the secure attachment. We are only allowed one under one for good reason as sometimes it can be tough if two of them need you at the exact same moment. Obv this isn’t a nursery v cm debate so that’s not my intention just with the specific topic of secure attachments it’s usually better for babies to have the one carer. I also read that children do better academically if they have had someone other than parents looking after them at an early age. Whether that’s a nursery, childminder or even a grandparent. I found that fascinating.

BUT i will say i dont think id be able to walk into a classroom full of children and be able to identify who was in childcare and who wasnt. There are too many other factors to consider.

No, you can’t Lard. That is the biggest pile a crap I’ve ever read. Do you go around asking people about their child’s early years situation or do you just make nasty assumptions?

I could say the opposite, with my own totally anecdotal evidence. All the children I know who didn’t attend child’s are clingy and difficult. Foesn’t Make it universally true.

If you think working class nineteenth century women, for instance, spent all day playing with their babies then you're the crackpot, not me.

My DM was a reception and year 1 teacher and I helped her a fair bit as a teenager when I had longer school holidays (probably wouldn't be allowed now!). I agree with HelloSquirrels, the ones who were coming straight from being at home all day were noticeably more immature at first. Terrible at sharing and sobbing when mummy or daddy left them. By a few months in, no difference, which is why I don't think anyone could tell by proper school age.

I’ve always worked, because I needed too. My DD went to a childminder from 6mo and now at 3 also does nursery. She is a well rounded child and people often comment on how happy and intelligent she is.
By me going to work I can now afford to feed her, clothe her and pay for the roof over her head. I’m now in the fortunate position that by me working we can afford holidays, trips to the zoos, mini breaks etc which are the things I’m sure she’ll remember from her childhood.
Before I went back to work it was full of doing free things. The park, toddler groups etc which she loved and were fine but she then did the exact same things with her childminder and I can provide things that provide a bit more of an experience also at the weekends.
Since being at nursery she’s learnt to recognise letters, write her name, do imaginary stories etc things that I wouldn’t be best placed (in my opinion) to teach her. She’s secure enough that I can leave her with people and she’s not sad because she knows I’ll always be back to get her and just enjoys herself.
I personally think childcare made her into the amazing kid she is today and wouldn’t hesitate in sending number 2 to childcare in the same way.
At the end of the day we all do what we think is best for our child, no matter what decision we make everyone probably feels guilt about it at some point so rather than constantly talking about what’s best we should just focus on whether our kids are happy, secure and shaping up to be good people - if they are, you’re doing it right.

No, I think that’s an (understandable) comforting lie people tell themselves and others. Psychological research is pretty clear about the impact on babies. It all becomes a more mixed picture at 2.5 plus but in an ideal world babies would be looked after by their parents or close relatives until 2.

She can't admit your baby can distinguish you from a standard lampwits.

No, I'm saying my baby can't distinguish me from one. Maybe I've already fucked up our attachment by having the audacity to have an older child to care for, or by mumsnetting whilst feeding, or by sticking her in a sling to do the laundry; or maybe she's a sociopath. I'll keep an eye out and report back in 20 years' time..

No. I'm asking.

Where has the mad idea that SAHMs should be playing with and staring at their children all day come from? I genuinely haven't heard of this yet.

(Of course my anecdote only applies to the few parents who explained the behaviour this way! So basically as useful as all anecdotes!!)

My grandparents love to tell me how they got left outisde in the garden, pushed around the streets by the neighbours kids and stayed at their grandparents every single weekend. They are lovely well rounded people who i trust to look after my own child. They certainly got less 1 on 1 care then my ds does even though he is in nursery full time.

No, I'm saying my baby can't distinguish me from one.

Not you. It was blue.