Babies in Childcare - Honest Opinions Please

[ChesterBelloc]

I've read several threads recently in which people stated that so long as a baby is competently cared for in a suitable environment, it makes no difference to the child whether the adult(s) in question are the baby's parent(s) or childcare professionals.

Do you believe this?

(I'm not asking for yet another debate about the extent to which 'stay-at-home parenting' may be detrimental to women's quest for equality/career progression/intellectual stimulation etc etc. There's enough on these boards already about that.)

I'm asking whether people genuinely believe that babies have/should have no stake in the discussion; whether they think that it makes no difference to the babies themselves whether they are with their parents all day or with a nursery/childminder - and if there is a qualitative difference, which is the better option, from the child's perspective.

I'm genuinely curious to hear people's views, not trying to be goady (though fully expect to be flamed for even raising this question, due to the possible implications and inferences that could be extrapolated from it). Thank you for reading thus far!

Newborns do stare intently at their mothers

You would stare intently if you could only see up to 20cm away!

Yes 18 month olds can make their feelings known. But nobody's going to be allowed to discuss this MrsZB.

A study showed that 4 month old babies can feel shame.

Genuine question: how do you measure shame?

Newborns do stare intently at their mothers! That's a fact not a frothy romantic statement! I'm not frothy

They stare intently at anyone who is holding them. And I think you mean slightly older than newborns.

As for 'you can tell by looking at their faces'- are you saying a child in nursery looks permanently sad?

Ok then looking at my 18 month olds face when we enter nursery and when i collect him he is happy content and settled. If you ask him if he's happy he will say yes. (He understands and uses yes and no)

Well, my 4 week old definitely knows the difference between me and any of the other adults who cuddle him in a given day... grandparents, siblings etc. He is happy with my husband, but settles easier with me. Of course they know a difference!

That isn't to say that there aren't scales of childcare, and that good childcare isn't perfectly ok for those that want or need to use it.

I don't understand why people are saying that you can't tell how a baby feels! Yes you can! Look at their faces!

So if a baby cries a lot when at home with its mother does that mean the baby is expressing it's dissatisfaction with her care? Should she immediately seek another carer for her clearly unhappy child? No, that's ridiculous, isn't it? But you seem determined that anything other than constant smiles and giggles at nursery is a damning indictment of the whole system.

My child probably cries and tantrums more with me than anyone else.... should i immediately give him up for adoption to someone who is more highly qualified to look after a child than i am?

I am not at all qualified to care for children but nobody questions that!

Well, my 4 week old definitely knows the difference between me and any of the other adults who cuddle him in a given day... grandparents, siblings etc. He is happy with my husband, but settles easier with me.

So is that further evidence that it's only women who are selfish cows for going back to work- not men? Maybe babies don't have to be super-happy every waking hour of the day, meaning that they can be cared for in a loving, safe and secure environment but that does not mean that the primary carer needs to be present every single moment.

"This is the problem with threads like this, appeals to 'the research' and 'only thinking from the child's perspective' "

I've not read ANY threads 'only from the child's perspective', which is why I started this one.

My OP asked for your opinions on how you think babies feel about being in childcare versus the family home.

I hoped for a broad discussion as to whether the current social set-up is the best option for babies as well as their parents. I'm sorry that some posters feel an implied criticism of their own choices/situation; this was not my intention, but I do realise this is probably impossible to avoid in a discussion of this nature.

No you mustn't admit to scales of childcare wits. It's all great at any age, any ratio, any length of time. Anyone who cares for their children FT is bored and jealous because spending time with small children is "tedious and repetitive". That's the dogma. Toe the line.

Did you actually read what I wrote? I said good childcare was perfectly ok. But what is the point in pretending that babies don't know any difference?

My 6 yr old and nearly 3.5 yr old have both been with their childminder since they were 9 months old. I wanted a home environment for them and a 'substitute mum' when I couldn't be there. They absolutely love her to pieces. She is brilliant with them and loves them too.

No experience of nursery settings as a childminder was the definite route I wanted to go down .

Sorry, cross post, that was to bluebells

battleax you seem to think you're being censored - by whom? No one's deleting your posts or saying you can't say what you think. It's just some people - quite a lot of people - disagree with you. That's not censorship, that's normal discussion.

OP, if you need to validate your own choices, you can do that without making other people feel bad for theirs.

I'd like you to go into a class of schoolchildren and observe them playing and learning for a few hours. Then to highlight on the register which kids were in full time childcare, which were in mixed and which stayed at home with their parent/s until they were 4.

She can't admit your baby can distinguish you from a standard lamp wits. Think of the implications

Congratulations BTW.

Childcare is supported by the government mainly to allow parents to be financially independent from state. It is not about the best interest of child.

www.simplypsychology.org/bowlby.html

Good research suggests that being with their primary carer for the first two years of life is best. Emotional damage can occur if this isn’t provided and I do wonder where the increase in use of nurseries from birth is, in part correlated to later emotional fragility and the increase in teenage/childhood mental health problems,

I understand totally that it is a financial essential to have two parents working to pay the bills. I understand childcare can seem dull and repetitive to women who’ve had exciting jobs pre babies. I do think we need to be honest though and question whether there isn’t a long term cost.

.....and yes, most people working in the baby rooms of nurseries are poorly educated and poorly qualified. NVQ 2/3 or NNEB at most generally. Not many post grads in nurseries.

My OP asked for your opinions on how you think babies feel about being in childcare versus the family home.

Why would it matter what a bunch of unqualified people imagine that babies feel? Maybe leave that to the psychologists who don't know for sure either but at least have a bit more of a platform to imagine.

Is there a study suggesting that children cared for by both parents and non-parents grow up to be delinquent hooligans?

You'll never get a definitive answer as each child is different and each child care setting is different. Its also finding the best match for your child.

What is proven is babies form attachments and need a responsive adult.

battleax you seem to think you're being censored - by whom?

No. Just wryly amused at the sheer amount of booming and bossing going on.

I always start of sympathetic. But by the time SAHMs have been dismissed as bored and jealous and newborns dismissed as clueless or indifferent, well... 🤷🏻‍♀️

OFF

This thread is nasty but not because of the OP- although I do think it is a little naive to ask this question in here.

Here’s what I think: children can grow up healthy and happy in any combination of scenarios. People need to stop banging the drum for their preferred style as being superior. It is bitchy and often shows their own insecurity.

Some people work and send their babies to childcare and have wonderful, well adjusted, happy kids. Some people stay at home and get the same result.

There is no magic formula. Love your kids and do your best. That’s all anyone can do.

My honest opinion - i think one of the sickest elements of our modern money obsessed society is the view that taking responsibility for your own children is seen totally in financial terms.

Claim benefits to stay at home and raise your own child and you are a srounger and irresponsible. Place your child in childcare 10 hrs a day for someone else to raise and you are taking responsibility.

It does not matter if you never change your child's nappy just as long as you are paying for them.

Personally I do not think one or other alternative is better either way you are advocating responsibility for some aspect of having a child - either financial or rearing. Neither should be seen more positively or negatively than the other.