to think we make sex out to be more important than it is

[purpleangel17]

Sex seems to be the centre of the universe these days. It is used to sell things all the time. People want to be sexually attractive. It is assumed sex is an essential part of any relationship. People talk as if they have a 'right' to sex, to frequent, 'good' sex, however you define that. Maybe men feel the 'entitlement' more but I think women feel it too.

Does anyone else find it a bit sad? It just feels the world is so focused on individual pleasure these days.

[purpleangel17]

I am happy with my choices and other people can make their own choices. But I am sad to be bringing up daughters in a world where I think that something that is a drive but not an essential is treated as if it were an essential right. That is all.

[ReanimatedSGB]

Ragingfeminist but there are people who refuse to have sex and still insist that their partners remain in the relationship/monogamous. There have been plenty of thread on MN from women whose partners make vague promises to change but do not do so, yet threaten to kill themselves/throw the OPs out and stop them ever seeing the children again if the woman says she doesn't want to live like this any longer.
If you don't want sex to form part of your couple-relationship, you have no right to insist that the other person remains in the relationship. (And I can't see any non-selfish reason why you would do so - if you don't want to play with a toy, why do you want to hoard it?)

(And this does NOT apply to couples where one partner is unwell or under a lot of stress and therefore has temporarily lost interest - that can be overcome with mutual kindness and good communication.)

[JacquesHammer]

But I am sad to be bringing up daughters in a world where I think that something that is a drive but not an essential is treated as if it were an essential right. That is all.

But they're individuals. They may not hold the same values.

I'm bringing my daughter up to understand that she can have sex when she wants, she doesn't need to be "in love" with someone to do it and most importantly she can always, ALWAYS say "no" at any time.

But again with the semantics, because YOU don't see it as essential, that doesn't mean it isn't. For me sex is absolutely essential. Doesn't mean I am right, only that I am right for me.

[Firesuit]

I've seen a few threads where a woman has talked about sex as though interest in it is some sort of lifestyle choice, like preferring blinds to curtains.

I want sex for the same reason I want to breath air and eat food. Yes I know I won't die without it, but to suggest that I want it because, after careful consideration, having listed all the uses I could occupy my spare time with, I think sex might be a better choice than say jogging, makes me think there's some bit of you missing.

I don't want to annoy anyone by suggesting there may be some general differences between the sexes, but I suspect the missing bit may be testosterone. I read somewhere recently that female-to-male transsexuals are shocked by the effect testosterone injections have on their sex drive.

I'm not disputing that that some women have sex drives as strong as any man's, but there do seem to be a disproportionate number of women who can't understand what the fuss is about, when it comes to sex.

[Huskylover1]

Well Op, if you have chosen to be celibate, you sound like you must have a non-existent or very low sex drive. You therefore won't have any understanding, of how it feels to have a high drive, and how this can certainly feel like sex is a need, rather than a want. Personally, if I had gone for 3 years without any action, I think I'd be quite ill. Anything longer than 2 weeks and I start to feel quite irritated/not calm. And I'm female.

[mustbemad17]

Bring your daughters up to understand their bodies. To know that they have control over what happens to them. To respect themselves. If they then at 18 decide they don't want to be in a relationship but still want sex, know that you have given them the tools to keep themselves safe & make sure it is their choice to do so. Don't bring them up with the archaic notion that sex is only for people in relationships, yada yada yada

[ReanimatedSGB]

Also, 'putting sex above friendship/kindness' might well be something that some people do, but selfish people frequently put their own particular non-sexual pleasures before kindness/friendship/family/work. In some cases they are addicts who put drink/drugs ahead of everything and everyone else, in other cases it's just straightforward selfishness - their hobby matters more than eg doing their share of chores, or going to Grandad's birthday party. This doesn't make enjoyment of a hobby, sex or even a few drinks automatically bad.

[MsHarry]

Examples of people putting sex above friends/family/kindness:

people who have casual sex when in a relationship without their partner knowing and agreeing to it

people who sexually harass

people who develop obsessions with porn

people having sex before they are ready to because they feel they should

All of those things are wrong and they are nothing to do with sex being important, which was your OP.

[purpleangel17]

Sex as being 'special' is the framework that works for me. Casual sex just leaves me feeling empty and hurt. I don't want a stream of serial long term relationships either, I want a life partner. And if I don't find him I am happy to be celibate.

That doesn't mean I think those who think differently are wrong.

But I do think that it is part of a phenomenon which while probably harmless to most, causes harm to some.

[hopsalong]

I don’t think it’s strange that people want to look sexually attractive or that sex is used to sell things. (It is a very powerful primitive drive, after all.)

But I completely agree with your point about the language of rights and entitlement, eg that we all “deserve” to have a lot of good sex, where “good” is often quite narrowly defined. Given that sex isn’t something that you can (legally) buy, or demand, it isn’t even clear how everyone is supposed to find a willing, attractive-to-them sexual partner.

It also ignores the transgressive and potentially dangerous aspects of sex. Is a man who isn’t currently having “good” sex with his wife, for whatever reason, justified in having sex with someone else? At what point does entitlement to certain kinds of sexual pleasure conflict with other things we might think that we, or others, are entitled to, like stable long-term relationships?

[MsHarry]

Op I have daughters too. I also have a brother and several BILs and male friends who have also been brought up to respect women and their bodies. you talk as though men and physical desire is wrong.

[ReanimatedSGB]

Again, the idea that sex is enjoyable and important because it's enjoyable is not what causes sexual problems; Patriarchy and patriarchal religions have given us this complex mess of beliefs along the lines of: Sex is dirty and sinful and only for reproduction
Women don't like sex and shouldn't like sex
Men need sex.

Part of the reason some women don't much enjoy sex is because the above bullshit means that any sex they do engage in is not much fun because it's all about 'letting' the man do it to them.

[MsHarry]

OP do you think masturbation is wrong?

[ReturnOfTheMackYesItIs]

You keep banging on making sweeping statements that really aren't true. The overwhelming majority of people do not see sex as a 'right' at all. Stop claiming that things are happening that aren't, you're just making yourself look like you have some major psychosexual issues.

[ReanimatedSGB]

Stable long-term relationships are not a right, either. Just as anyone can refuse sex, anyone in a relationship that is not making them happy can end it. And being unhappy with the frequency/quality of sex in a monogamous relationship is a perfectly good reason for ending it.

[PaintingByNumbers]

I've always prioritised sexual attraction in a relationship, as in I like to have sex early on to see if we are compatible. I know people say attraction grows etc but I haven't experienced that so it isn't my personal experience. Quite happy to be friends with anyone, but not having a sexual relationship with someone I have to play mind games with myself to fancy.

[purpleangel17]

Actually the Torah/Bible/Koran tell you to go forth and multiply. They may be against more casual forms of sex but the Christian marriage service basically says go and enjoy sex. So I don't agree religions demonise sex, their rules actually protected women back then but are arguably less relevant now.

I don't think masturbation is wrong, no. I don't think it should take over your life though.

[ChocoLeibnizAddict]

Sex isn't a basic human need. You won't die if you don't have sex like you will if you don't get oxygen.

There's too much sex everywhere I agree and I'd much rather live in a world of progress where people are focused on making live sbetter rather than getting their jollies off

[Queeniebed]

Sounds like someone has had a go at you? I'm not sure I know anyone who believes sex is essential (apart from continuing the human race)

Don't drip feed now

[Skarossinkplunger]

Personally I think you’re being a bit judgy. I enjoy sex as part of my long term relationship now and I enjoyed all the great one-night stands/friend with benefits I had before.

You say you’re not criticising others but then you say it contributes to the sexual assault problems coming to light now.

[EdmundCleverClogs]

You keep banging on making sweeping statements that really aren't true. The overwhelming majority of people do not see sex as a 'right' at all. Stop claiming that things are happening that aren't, you're just making yourself look like you have some major psychosexual issues.

I think the op has sadly a very negative view of sex and is just trying to justify her opinion by making it a general feminist issue. Whilst obviously no one can deny sex has (and continues to be) used as a weapon mostly against women - from making irrelevant things sexualised to begin inappropriate touched by men who think they own us - that is a separate discussion from ‘should we stop enjoying sex so much’. No, never, as men and women we should enjoy it however we do it, normalise it, and recognise that it’s fine to do it but never hurt someone with it or take it as we please, as something that is ‘a right’.

[Queeniebed]

Casual sex just leaves me feeling empty and hurt.

So you have had casual sex in the past and are now celibate and either are feeling left out or someone has said something?

[MsHarry]

Masturbation is sex. It doesn't take over my life, just as sex with my DH doesn't. Why are you all about the extremes?

[Queeniebed]

I am happy with my choices and other people can make their own choices. But I am sad to be bringing up daughters in a world where I think that something that is a drive but not an essential is treated as if it were an essential right. That is all.

teach your daughters another way then - I don't see the world like this at all - sex is a good natural part of life that can be used for a loving relationship/a simple fling or to harm another. I disagree with your sweeping statement that this is a world that sex is all - I hardly think about it some day (too busy) imagine that! you seem to dwell on it. Look to yourself and ask why - bad relationship past?

[JacquesHammer]

Sex isn't a basic human need. You won't die if you don't have sex like you will if you don't get oxygen

No but I would be unfulfilled and not enjoy life as much. Why survive when you can enjoy life and live?!

There's too much sex everywhere I agree and I'd much rather live in a world of progress where people are focused on making live sbetter rather than getting their jollies off

Why does someone enjoying sex often equate to extremes?