To be upset at a woman kicking my friendly 4 month old golden retriever?

[Marshmallowpops]

I am so upset. I've just come back from a walk with my puppy. She's a lovely friendly golden retriever. I've been letting her off leash in the local park as the trainer said it's best to do it early. She is really friendly and loves to play with other dogs- she often meets them all for a play date in the park in the morning- there are always lots of dogs off leash in this park. Normally when there aren't other dogs she trots along beside me, sometimes going off to sniff but coming back when called. She's not too bothered about people but will say hello and sit down (not jump up) as she is trained to do. Today it was dark at 8pm and I let her off as normal, she just trots along and comes back when called. But today she saw two women, one with a baby in a carrier) so went over to say hello (she's normally not bothered but today was a little hyper), but she just trotted over like she does, really gently and not aggressive at all. I said to the woman 'don't worry she won't jump up she'll just sit down and say hello', but before my puppy had even reached the woman, the woman started kicking her away! I could understand if the dog seemed aggressive but she's the sweetest thing. She kicked her repeatedly, my puppy came back to me, I put her on the lead, and the other woman started having a go at me asking if I thought it was acceptable for my dog to go over and attack her baby. She was smoking a cigarette. I wanted to say that is going to cause more harm to the baby than my dog ever would but I didn't. I know of course that as a mother you are very protective of your baby but I just would never attack a friendly dog. Maybe they've had bad experiences in the past. I'm just very upset. I know not everyone likes dogs but that park is so dog busy that I thought everyone was used to it by now. I think I'll keep her on a lead at night until she's really 100% with recall. She's about 90% now. So I know there will be people who say I'm in the wrong letting her off but if she had an aggressive bone in her body I would never let her off.

Could you please train your children FFS and keep them indoors or on reins at all times, until they are a fully functioning well-trained adult?

Excusing the initial phase in toddlerhood. At what point is there a rjsk of a child biting someone?

Flobella, that must have been so hard for your friend, and heartbreaking. But definitely the right decision.

My DSis had a lovely Labrador Rertriever. This dog was her constant companion through a traumatic divorce and she kept her into her second marriage as well (they survived the dog eating her DSS’s hamster when they were newly engaged).

Then my DSis had 2 DC herself. Sadly, her DS, a toddler at the time, was very lively and the dog, very elderly and grumpy by then, started growling at the little boy. (It hadn’t been an issue with her DD, or the DSS before that.) She and her DH couldn’t take the risk of the dog hurting their DS and had the dog PTS. She was old and arthritic by then so it was the kindest option. She’d had a lovely life and had given my DSis so much joy. It was devastating for her.

Will somebody please explain to me how I can tell a dog that will bite me from one that won't? I have been bitten by a dog, and so has my DS - so I know it happens. Neither of the dogs who bit us looked like 'the type' that bite. They were both cute and fluffy.

Sadly MeAndMyElephant theres no definite way. It was a Lab that went for DS. I'm sure the owner would have simply described it as 'hyper'. It didn't look intimidating, was bouncing around the field, (owner nowhere to be seen) dog jumps up DS and proceeds to bite him, thankfully DS was wrapped jp to the 9s so not much damage. Owner refused to take any responsibility whatsoever (once he was found) despite the fact he was no where to be seen when it happened.

Another one was with me (and I adore dogs) . Was walking home when a dog (off lead) came bounding over, not unusual, most dogowners know I'll stop and give their doggos a fuss, owner recalled it, nothing, kept bounding up to me, tail was wagging, the minute it got near me it stopped started barking aggressively and bam! Went for me. Another time this happened to me i was literally stuck as I'm looking down at this dog wondering how I'm going to get out of it without getting bitten. Do you know what the owner said? "oh it's alright he's just friendly?"

The dogwarden gave me some great advice, mainly 'be a tree', remaining still and being assertive with the dog and they say, although it can't always be relied on, signs of grumpy dogs is no tail wagging, or tail up and hard, not wagging.

I have been bitten by a golden retriever as a child. My EX was a jogger who was bitten in the ankles 3 times in ten years time. If a dog doesn't listen to it's owner and comes running at me I will attack it out of defense. No, I don't know your dog. No, I am not going to wait to be bitten again. No, you can never be sure it will not attack me.

I have cats and chinchillas and I'd never blindly trust them not to hurt another person. Animals are not people, their thinking process is different. One of my chinchillas wouldn't hurt a fly and is really easygoing. The second he sees the vet he bites him. Only the vet, kids can pull his tail and whatever and its fine, the vet can be on the other side of the room doing nothing and he'll attack. Without cause. Because he is an animal you can never be sure.

excusing the initial phase of toddlerhood”

So what’s the difference in excusing puppyhood then?

Blackcatonthesofa - is your cat kept indoors at all times? Because most cats roam freely, toilet freely and their owners don't know where they are half the time. It doesn't bother me but some would say that it is one rule for dog owners and another one entirely for cats. The only time my child has ever been harmed by an animal was a bad cat scratch. I didn't do anything about it, I just let it go so I don't have a problem with cats or anything, just playing devil's advocate and putting another view out there...!

So what’s the difference in excusing puppyhood then?

Ever encountered a very bouncy Japanese Akita 'puppy'? Gorgeous dogs but little and harmless is something they're often not. The two are not the same.

Blackcatonthesofa

Good to know thanks, I’ll make sure I am on guard to defend myself/family/pets against your unprovoked attack.

Yanbu op. I was always fearful of dogs running up to me. But a puppy? Sounds like she was OTT, especially as the baby was in a carrier.

A very tiny minority of dogs have a working role the vast majority are just living toys, their owners enjoy having them but to everyone else they are a nuisance.
The pet industry has encouraged dog owners to think of their dogs as furbabies .....equivalent to humans, purely in the interest of profit because it's the best way to get owners to spend a lot of money on their dogs.
Because the dog owner sees its dog as quasi human it begins to think of the dog as the moral equivalent of the human that's why we have all this nonsense about 'my dog must have the freedom to blah blah blah'
Not much point arguing with the dog owners they just dig their heels in and defend their fur babies all the more

^
and that's why I prefer dogs to people. They're so much nicer and rest assured, despite your vitriol, dogs are very forgiving and if you needed a guide dog, or a dog to sniff out bombs for you, etc., they wouldn't judge you, they'd wag their tail and help you.

Of course dogs don't judge you, they don't have the mental Capacity to judge anyone and not capable of abstract thought

Flobella yes they are indoor cats. They don't have to roam around annoying other people. I chose them so I take care of them. Other people shouldn't have to deal with my choice of pet.

Kursk. As I explained I have been bitten before. A dog that doesn't listen to it's owner and is running to me can very well attack me again. My defense is therefore not unprovoked.

OP - its awful for her to kick your doig ( i am an owner of two dogs so understand how you feel) - but, maybe she was attacked by dogs when she was young. Maybe she was a first time mother and she was afraid of what the dog might do to the baby. I know of someones 4 month old malamute severely injure a 6 day old baby - i wont go into details here as its V outing, lets just say the outcome of that attact was very distressing and made the national papers a fair few days.

Get a retractable lead to protect you and your dog.

I see a lot of people on this thread claiming that all dogs are so nice and cute and helpful. But a lot of people have been attacked by dogs. So how are we to distinguish the difference in a split second between an attacking dog or an overenthusiastic one? I'd rather err on the side of caution.

To bad I don't see my ex anymore. Otherwise I could have posted a pretty picture of his leg with old bite marks.

The words "living toys" about sum it up. I have no problem about people regarding their pets in this way just as long as they do not allow them to be a nuisance/danger to me or anyone else.

I do however think it is a bit of a mental aberration to "prefer dogs to people" - that borders on the pathological.

I also feel concerned for the animals involved in this exchange - is it kind to train them out of their natural pack instincts and try and make mini-humans of them? Is it kind to inbreed them so that they cannot mate, or breather properly. Is it kind to dock tails because humans like the look of them that way?

I often think that so-called animal-lovers are meeting their own needs at the expense of the dog's well-being. And I say this as someone who does not like dogs.

Personally I don't blame dogs for anything, we are the animals that have the mental Capacity to judge and are capable of abstract thought
so, we are responsible for the way dogs behave.

I do however think it is a bit of a mental aberration to "prefer dogs to people" - that borders on the pathological.

hahaha! It’s perfectly possible to be an animal lover without babying or humanising them. They’re loyal, loving, genuine, affectionate, friendly and trusting. All the things you might hope you could expect from another human but might never find consistently.

Your post has reassured me I do still prefer dogs to people.

I prefer dogs to people!

Dogsnet would be a much nicer place

Nancy where do I sign up?!

*ITS NOT A FUCKING DOG, ITS A TINY PUPPY

There is literally no excuse for kicking a small puppy hmm*

This with bells on! I am disgusted by some of the comments. The puppy did not jump up or do anything to remotely deserve this. There is nothing wrong with letting your dog off in a park. I think OP you have been remarkably restrained. If anyone had kicked mine as puppies who were similarly gentle, I would have lost my rag. And that goes for an adult dog passing by people do. If people are that irrationally scared of dogs to attack them unprovoked, don’t go to a fucking park or green space.

"I do however think it is a bit of a mental aberration to "prefer dogs to people" - that borders on the pathological."
Careful- I think saying that is against Talk guidelines.

Tempt
A 4 month old Lab is not a 'tiny puppy' its probably 30-40lbs of excitable dog. And at that age they are rebelling against commands/ doing as they are told. This is also the stage where they will start to try to assert their dominance and mix that in with teething and chewing on anything to hand including people and an out of control 'puppy' this size could be a menace.

Why the hell should people all stay away from green spaces just so dogs can have free reign all over them? WTF? Keep your dog under control and there wont be any problems, its pretty simple.

OP has reconsidered her approach and has accepted that not everyone wants a dog running at them, funny how other posters dont seem able to do the same.

I do however think it is a bit of a mental aberration to "prefer dogs to people" - that borders on the pathological.
That's hilarious, when you look at what people get up to, child abuse, murder, animal cruelty, wars, torture, robberies, gun/knife crime.....

I also feel concerned for the animals involved in this exchange - is it kind to train them out of their natural pack instincts and try and make mini-humans of them? You're completely wrong on two counts here. Pack instinct theory is so out of date now and as for animals lovers making dogs into mini-humans , nothing could be further from the truth!

Is it kind to inbreed them so that they cannot mate, or breathe properly. Is it kind to dock tails because humans like the look of them that way? Yes, people have so much to answer for, it's disgusting how much people have let dogs down. I think to some degree that's why cross breeds are now so popular. Any true animal lover abhors the interbreeding that's gone on, and happily it's now against the law to dock tails, haven't you noticed?

I often think that so-called animal-lovers are meeting their own needs at the expense of the dog's well-being. And I say this as someone who does not like dogs. and someone who knows very little about them, obviously.

Oh and yes please Dogsnet would be wonderful after the MNs hatred and vitriol and that's just on this thread