To think Demi Moore was wrong

[MumsGoneToPieland]

To guess a 15 year old at the age of 19 because she was married, not because he was 15? I don’t understand the outrage. They were both teenagers and it was just a snog? Even if it was a 19 year old man kissing a 15 year old it’s not that bad? Obviously entirely different if there was any hint of coercion, but there doesn’t seem to be in the Demi Moore situation

www.digitalmusicnews.com/2017/11/13/demi-moore-sexual-15-year-old-boy/

Gender does have a part in the perception of this. Plus as people have pointed out there are a few grey areas. But are we concentrating too much on the phycial act, not the intent?

It's definitely been stirred up to deflect attention from the many other cases, and to be a case where some can delightedly shout that "see, women do it too!!".

I don’t think this is abuse either, I do think it just looks sick because he looks so young for his age and her so much older for hers.

I do agree if this was a girl who looked twelve being kissed by a man who looked in his mid to late twenties, irrelevant of actual age, the outrage would be bigger.

However, it’s just a kiss, it is clearly consensual, it simply looks discomfiting.

@AssassinatedBeauty

Wow! It seems you're really showing your true colours.

That's such and ignorant way of looking at a sexual activity which most people seem to agree is certainly unpleasant, yucky, inappropriate etc. Somehow, you seem to see everything as women vs the patriarchy and when a woman is the sexual deviant, it's simply to distract people from 'male violence'.

You have a really horrible outlook and attitudes like yours do nothing for equality, they simply look to create conflict and divisions.

It doesn't even look like french kissing, it's like a big tongueless smooch. Inappropriate? Yes. But I doubt I'd call it abuse. At 16 I was in a relationship with a 20 year old man which was sexual and actually illegal here in Ireland where 17 is the age of consent.

It wasn't passionate kissing, it was just on the lips. I think it looks like she was kissing him for some kind of birthday present, in front of a lot of different people. But I found it a bit inappropriate the way she kept kissing him at the table. He was a very young looking 15 year old.

@coldJustice, not read the thread then? Ok.

Of course I'm "showing my true colours", what an odd way of referring to someone else's opinions. I take it you disagree with my opinion on the reason this has been dug up. Which is fine, of course.

It raises an interesting question. Regardless of the intent or concent of the kids in the current climate I'm sure if the genders were reversed the celebrity in question would be expected to fall on their sword or be oustersised. So I guess the question is should we be outraged at and sanction men and women in public life the same? Or should we deal with these things seperatly depending on gender? I have seen lots of feminist on here correctly so point out the vast majority of recorded sexual aggression and inappropriateness is male on female. Does the publication and debate over whether a female has acted inaproriatly do anything to affect the image of women being the main victim of these things?

How is a 19yo female giving a 15yo male a congratulatory snog in a public place the same as the expectations of highly respected middle aged men that they have the right to expect much younger and junior females to put out, dad? When we see the likes of Helen Mirren dragged up for abusing teen age boys on the quiet in her trailer, sure, we should treat everyone the same.
Unless you are genuinely attempting to claim that a teenaged Demi Moore is an abuser of the likes of the many many 'men' that have used their power and position to demand sexual favours? In which case, you just proved Assassinatedbeauty's point. Well done you.

I don't see her drugging him and stripping him naked.
I don't see her forcing sex.
I don't see her masturbating in front of him.
I don't see her suggesting he wouldn't work again if he didn't shag her.
I don't see her refusing to give him a part if he didn't put out.
I don't see her raping him with the calculated knowledge that even if he spilled the beans, no one would do anything because she was the almighty Demi Moore.

Your ridiculous suggestion that 'women should be treated the same' is embarrassing and shows your in-built prejudice.

If women were to be treated the same, could someone please mention that to all the male rapists and abusers, please? It's facile to demand the same punishment when women apparently don't have the right to be treated respectfully and not abused. When women are not expected to put up and shut up, then come back and bleat about punishment.

Think of your daughters. In a society where they will be subjected to expectations of putting up with being treated like a sex object against their will, possibly raped, masturbated in front of, and have their careers and livelihood endangered unless they put out, and to keep quiet about it, you are concerned about a 15yo getting a snog from another teenager at a public party?

Weird.

In case you were confused, it's not the same. It. Is. Not. The. Same. So your hypothetical genderless argument isn't worth discussing. When it IS in fact the same, do pop back.

@AssassinatedBeauty

Read the thread in full. I don't think we're allowed to bring in poster's history but you do love to pretend that you stand for equality.

@madwoman1ntheatt1c

Why do some posters think that trite repetition is the sign of a remarkable post?

You. Are. A. Moron.

"When women are not expected to put up and shut up, then come back and bleat about punishment."

Do you understand how idiotic this is? Firstly, it's build on false logic; no one has said that women should put up and shut up. Secondly, are you suggesting that until women report zero offences, we cannot investigate or condemn a women's actions?

Bring in what you like, I don't pretend anything.

Oh, sorry @madwoman1ntheatt1c

You are an idiot because you think that she must drug and strip him to assault him.

You are an idiot to think that without penetration there is no crime.

You are an idiot to think that unless she masturbates, it has an semblance to recent well-publicised accusations.

You are an idiot for thinking that without explicit coercion there is no crime.

You are an idiot for thinking that this young boy wasn't aware of her 'star power'.

You are an idiot for thinking that "women should be treated the same" is inequality.

All people should be held to the same standards.

It isn't okay for men to kiss girls, it isn't okay for women to kiss boys. It doesn't matter if the younger person seems to be consenting, the older person shouldn't be doing it.

This doesn't reduce the seriousness of less consensual, more sexual, more coercive acts. If anything it makes them more serious because the lesser act was already recognised as wrong.

Your ridiculous suggestion that 'women should be treated the same' is embarrassing and shows your in-built prejudice

I find the positions being taken by madwomanintheattic and coldjustice equally ridiculous. One arguing that women can't be called out for anything until all male attacks stop and the other trying to make out that what Demi Moore did is as bad as Weinstein et al.

The video showed 3 very brief kisses on the lips, lasting less than a very few seconds in total; the second was him leaning towards her- all in a brightly lit place with lots of other people around.

How would I view this if it had been a 19 year old male starlet ? An apology, an acknowledgement and an understanding that it was wrong and that he won't do it again. I would not expect a pillorying for this if it had been an isolated incident.

Perhaps I was misunderstood. My point was not that female perpetrators of the same crimes should be 'let off', merely that these are not the same crimes. And when they are the same crimes, of course the women should be treated in the same way. But three snogs between teenagers does not assault or harassment make.

My bad - dad rubbed me up the wrong way on another feminism thread by mansplaining about men assaulting women. I should have just ignored him on this one.

www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2016/11/the-understudied-female-sexual-predator/503492/

It's an interesting debate. To what extent female predation is underreported and why. Certainly, when women groom teenage boys you sometimes see comments which would be wholly unacceptable if the sexes were switched (teenage boys being up for it/grateful/fantasy come true etc)

madwoman1ntheatt1c "mansplaining", brilliant. Another mystical creation like unicorns, Leprechauns and the Easter bunny.

Sorry to bite, that's ridiculous scapegoating.

Perhaps I was misunderstood. My point was not that female perpetrators of the same crimes should be 'let off', merely that these are not the same crimes. And when they are the same crimes, of course the women should be treated in the same way
But three snogs between teenagers does not assault or harassment make

I did not misunderstand you. This is what you originally said.

Your ridiculous suggestion that 'women should be treated the same' is embarrassing and shows your in-built prejudice
And
It's facile to demand the same punishment when women apparently don't have the right to be treated respectfully and not abused. When women are not expected to put up and shut up, then come back and bleat about punishment

You are backtracking at a great speed.

What Demi Moore did was minor in the scheme of things. It would have been minor had the sexes been reversed.

There is nothing "ridiculous" as you described in calling for equal treatment. What is ridiculous would be calling for Moore to be treated in the same way as Weinstein.

That's an interesting article Hangry. Some years ago when I was a governor looking at safer recruiting there were some interesting statistics which showed that the majority of offenders were female in primary schools. Makes sense given that the majority of primary school teachers are female.

just saw this - not backtracking lass - just thought that my meaning would be obvious without qualifying it every time with 'for the same crime'. I thought that was so obvious that it went without saying as I was so bloody cross. Clearly it didn't. Next time I lose my rag because someone is suggesting one teenager snogging another counts as abuse I'll make sure I qualify it properly, even if it's a comment made by a bloke who believes the military are a veritable paragon of gender equality, with nary an harassment incident or assault to be seen since Pontius were a pilot. #judgementfailonbothsides

If a 19 year old kissing a 15 year old is sexual assault, there must be a lot of worried men out there right now.

Am wondering when Don Johnson (aged 22 at the time) and Melanie Griffith's (aged 14 at the time) relationship will hit the spotlight.