To not feel safe in London anymore?

[CecileDeBumblechat]

I have lived in London since the age of 18 and in our current area of SE London for a decade now.

I've always felt like we were lucky to live here, safe, very friendly, nice parks etc.

Our DC go to an amazing school, and are very happy kids, with lots of opportunities to do different activities etc. They have loads of friends, as do me and DH, and I love the area. We are planning to move early next year into a bigger place locally (we need more space) and the plan was to stay put at least until the kids have left home.

However in the past year or two I have felt a real shift in how safe I feel in the area, and the amount of incidents that have happened seem to have escalated dramatically. I'm not sure whether part of this is down to local groups on social media and knowing more about what's happened (rather than being blissfully unaware), but I'm starting to get concerned and wondering if staying in the area is actually the right thing to do for our DC?

I'll summarise what's happened (and I've NC as this is potentially outing to me and to the area I live in).

• There is a sex attacker targeting school children on the loose in the wider area - I've heard of the most recent incident very locally this morning (seems to be groping/intimidation and nothing more serious - yet). We have received letters in school bags about it, and asking us to make sure children walk in groups and are vigilant. My DC are not old enough to walk along yet, but the eldest will be starting next year.
• There has been a gang attacking people after dark in streets very close to us - muggings, some burglaries by the sounds of it and one person was attacked on their doorstep. There is an alley I would walk down frequently to get to friends house, doctors etc which now i feel I have to avoid.
• There is a moped gang covering the whole of the SE of London, targetting eldery asian women to get thei jewellery (this has been widely covered). They attacked the grandmother of a girl at my DC school right outside the school at pickup time :( MY DD is aware of this because it happend whilst she was at school.
• I've had a nutter try to get into my car stopped at traffic lights round the corner from my house about 6 months ago. Luckily my door was locked. A few weeks ago in exactly the same place, a guy of the same description tried to open the door of another local mum (also had door locked thankfully).
• There has been a noticible increase in homeless people in the area (which I think has happened around the country). Whilst I am obviously concerned that so many people are ending up in these dire circumstances, there are certain places that people are begging that feel quite intimidating (ie blocking the entrance to shops whilst also drinking). Police intervention doesn't seem to have helped. A few weeks ago a drunk/drugged up man lay down outside our front window and was ranting/swearing/shouting for the entire night. It was very scary and intimidating (shouting racial abuse etc - I thought there was two of them for quite a while until we realised he was basically talking to himself). We called the police who were apparently on their way - they never turned up.

I don't want to leave our friends, the school, the localy community and more importantly the place we call home. However I now feel scared, and I am worried about my DC in the area espcially as they grow older and want more independence.

Part of me doesn't want to let the bastards win, part of me thinks this could all get worse (with police cuts etc) and we should really think seriously before we commit ourselves with the new house.

AIBU? Should we really consider leaving for some rural idyll or am I kidding myself and this could all happen anywhere?

I was raised in a little village but spent most of my time in blog cities (Leeds, Preston) and moved to London 3 months ago.
Not the best area but expensive flat, nice park opposite, wonderful community spirit, near library and college. Last week I saw a man brutally attacked put of my kitchen window ₩( were 4th floor) and someone was raped in the park opposite ...reading the police Twitter in our area .. knives, sexual harassment.
A ground floor flat in our building was targeted and burgled whilst i was in my flat.

I do not feel safe here.

We lived in, I guess, a similar area to you in SE London. Prior to that I lived in London for 15 plus years. It was fine while I was a singleton and subsequently when the kids were little. There were issues but we could avoid them. But what worried me and made me feel unsafe was the prospect of our DCs getting older and wanting to branch out on their own.

Even if they didn't get directly involved in any of that stuff, they could encounter it and I began to feel worried that they would feel very restircted about where they could go and what they could do.

We moved out completely and now live about 20 mins from a provincial city. Its lovely. We picked carefully to ensure that there was good local transport. DCs are now teens and can get bus/ train into town if they like. We are surrounded by beautiful countryside but are near an interesting and vibrant city.

There are local teen issues but mainly just a bit of underaged drinking and drug taking. There has been a bit of ASBO' ish behaviour with groups of so called intimidating lads hanging around the local park but we have all known them since they are about 8 so no adult would be scared to approach them and tell them off.

I go out running at 10pm and meet only other runners or dog walkers.

DS still loves the idea of London. Maybe he might even go and live there when he is older. But for now I wouldn't want to go back.

Imustbemad00 Sydenham Hill is lovely.

@Imustbemad00 Sydenham hill is nice! The whole of Sydenham is quite lovely. Avoid lower Sydenham.

police Twitter feed

I’ll hazard a guess violent crime isn’t actually much worse than before but you just hear about it a lot more, leading to the perception of lack of safety.

I have lived in London and now live in another UK city. I like city life and I really enjoy the vibrancy of where I live. All cities have there issues but where I am has a different vibe to London. For example on the train recently a load of teenagers were being obnoxious and the whole train basically turned on them and told them to grow up (which they did). I just can't imagine that happening in London. I visit London for work and pleasure and in all honesty what concerns me is the amount of people with mental illnesses there are. People who need help are just not getting it and it's scandalous.

Yes dozer I agree!
We thought dh would find a job down here but there's nothing really unless he retrains & we can't afford a massive pay cut.
I'll have to wait until youngest is in school so will have had years out of my job & it's gonna be hard going back after a big gap..

There are other major cities, other towns, than just London and the town you grew up in.
There is a whole world out there between London and a town in the middle of nowhere with a heroin problem.
Lots of places to look and I'm sure you'll find something. Probably more space and more money to go with it too
WRT school trips we had loads of trips to London and we were in South Wales absolutely miles away! I think I went to London about 20ish times during the time I was in school, probably more often the closer you are to London too. You don't have to move far... I can't attest to the safety of London I'm afraid as I have not lived there in a long time. But the things you describe would make me extremely worried and I too would look into leaving.
Please don't think that leaving London has to mean a town in the middle of nowhere with drug issues!
Also, FYI, London had huge drug issues when I lived there. Don't know if that's still the case but if you have druggies on your doorstep it quite likely is TBH. So I wouldn't throw too many stones from your glass house...

Cactus - I'm throwing no stones? I'm saying my experience of growing up in a small market town wasn't great and I couldn't wait to leave. I certainly know not all sounds are the same as where I grew up.

I know there is a whole world out there - but jobs for my DH is an issue as his role is very London centric (and he enjoys it). So moving to another city is difficult as would entail a career change. Not saying impossible, but difficult.

It's also very hard to pick a place on a map and decide to move there with no prior connections. Like was pointed out earlier - you can't just run from somewhere, you have to run TO somewhere. I would live in Bristol very happily, but the job prospects for DH are limited.

If you want to see areas of serious, serious deprivation by all means leave London. I am a Londoner and don't recognise half the things you are worried about, but I also don't sit around reading social media and working myself into a flap. Of course cities are going to have more crime than rural areas, but talk to anyone who actually grew up in a rural area and you will know that boredom leads to more drug and alcohol abuse amongst teens than in cities, where there is more to do.

Yes. I'm a Londoner and the only place I've ever seen someone shooting up was in a toilet in Tunbridge Wells.

YANBU. We’re waiting to exchange and it can’t come a moment too soon. I’m genuinely scared to leave my house after dark where we are and the shorter days leave me feeling very trapped. In the past year we’ve had stabbings, a murder, acid attack alone not mentioning the day to day muggings and drug dealing. I moved to the city for work 4 years ago and no amount of culture or free museum arguments could keep me here.

We’re zone 3 and I stand by the argument that no matter where you live in london in takes an hour to get anywhere.

I’ll settle for an extra 15 minutes commute to leave all this behind!

I think the Asian jewellery theft victim in you OP is my best friend’s mother. She was robbed doing school pick up in SE London. FWIW my friend has no plans to move away. She loves the area.

We lived in Brockley until a couple of years ago. We are now on the London /Surrey border and have more space and the area is probably safer. However, it’s dull as fuck and the commute is a horror.

I've travelled to Croydon High Street for shopping since i was a kid as the transport links are good. Used to go late night shopping there as a teenager. I'm still fine going there during the day, but have thought twice about taking dd after school as there have been a few stabbings and attacks there recently. Actually in the high street around 6 - 7 usually.

Dh works in London, has done for years. Also Sydney, USA, Canada, and most of Europe.

He classes Paris as the worst most unsafe he’s ever felt with London second. It’s not nice after dark.

Where we live the big news was a flower basket being knicked. I wouldn’t raise my kids in London for the world. Yanbu op.

Sorry that was meant to say stabbings and fights.

Birmingham city centre has this simmering vibe of impending doom. Hate it.

The issue I have is surburbia i.e. zone 5 & 6 is not for me. I would relocate to another city (like the look of Bristol too) but when you have no connections to a place it's really hard to choose. Plus we would be leaving both our families behind.

I work in London, but choose to live outside. I get the best of both worlds.

However, in fairness, there are issues everywhere. The worst crime in my area used to be milk being stolen from doorsteps (c 15-20 years ago) but now more drugs, knife crime etc.

I think social media groups don't necessarily help. Its easy to stir up fear from an isolated event.

But if you don't feel as safe as you did, then that's how you feel

The London haters will love this! However, if it troubles you so much just leave, no need to canvas internet strangers who can't make choices for you.

In any case the latest figures say crime and homelessness is quickly rising across the country. The last time I saw this many rough sleepers and petty crime was when John Major was in power. I can't for the life of me understand why the Torys are called the party of law and order. They were in power for 5 minutes before they got rid of most of the community support officers. You can go weeks without seeing a policeman now whereas we used to have a lovely group of officers who kept petty crime and thus worse crime under control.

Everyday I see homeless people around. I never saw them in these numbers early on in Cameron's premiership.

This city houses the countries richest and poorest and as soon as there are cuts you will quickly notice the increase in problems. However, the rest of the country is also going downhill. You will not be able to escape the downturn in this country and the rest of the country won't bounce back as fast as London. This is just the beginning, remember what this country was like at the end of John Major's tenure? I do and it wasn't good. People dying in hospital corridors, rubbish in the streets, lots of crime and lots of poverty and lack of social services. People literally danced for joy when the Torys were ousted.

Im in zone2 west london and although ive noticed an increase in homeless people, ive seen very little crime. The neighbourhood watch stats come out at around 3 thefts from cars a month wheras the coastal town i lived in previously had drink and drug related crimes, marauding teenagers smashing up the high street at night and various sexual assaults.

If you move out i would rent the grass is often not only less green its probally full of dog poo...

But like another poster said, it doesn't have to be trading in London for a small town or rural location which seems to be the argument on here. Although I appreciate jobs are an issue.

I've lived in London all my life, grew up in a very safe area of north London (zone 3) which is now prohibitively expensive to buy in. We currently live in a very nice pocket of East London. We are lucky to live here in many ways. The area we are in is wonderful, but walk 10 mins north, south, east or west and there is open drug dealing, crackheads and alcoholics on every other corner, and many people with mental health issues. Theres gabg problems and a recent spate of acid attacks took place nearly on the end of our road.

We also have an amazing community, my children know all the local shop owners, and we have good friends locally. Our area is a tiny bubble.

I love London. I know how great London is. If I didn't have children I wouldn't think for a second about leaving. My issue is, do I want my children to see people buying drugs outside their nursery every day (the nursery itself is amazing). Do I want them to get in a bit of trouble as a teenager and have a knife pulled on them? Or conversely feel like they might need to carry a knife. Do I want a risk of acid being thrown at them/me/my husband. Probably not.

These risks may be small and I appreciate there is crime and other problems everywhere, but possibly not to the same extent. We are looking at moving to another large city where we can afford to get a house in an area which doesn't have the same immediate problems that we have here.

Yanbu, I left London 20 years ago and no amount of money could entice me to ever live there again.

Kitsharrington did you read my OP or the thread:

1. It's not just social media - this is stuff that's happened to me and people I know too

1. I did grow up in a rural area with a drug problem, so I know exactly what that's like

Anyway, I was just wondering what other's in the same situation were thinking. A range of opinions is good.

However I do love the area and we are happy here, and we don't have an obvious place to leave to, so I think my wobble is passing. I don't think it's terrible or insulting to London to want to know you are making the right decisions with regards to safety. It's just upsetting when you feel a change in your area. But like many have said, not just this area, not just London, and ultimately maybe just taking precautions and not e.g. being alone after dark is the way to deal with this.

Sounds like your wobble is over op! Welcome home!