To not feel safe in London anymore?

[CecileDeBumblechat]

I have lived in London since the age of 18 and in our current area of SE London for a decade now.

I've always felt like we were lucky to live here, safe, very friendly, nice parks etc.

Our DC go to an amazing school, and are very happy kids, with lots of opportunities to do different activities etc. They have loads of friends, as do me and DH, and I love the area. We are planning to move early next year into a bigger place locally (we need more space) and the plan was to stay put at least until the kids have left home.

However in the past year or two I have felt a real shift in how safe I feel in the area, and the amount of incidents that have happened seem to have escalated dramatically. I'm not sure whether part of this is down to local groups on social media and knowing more about what's happened (rather than being blissfully unaware), but I'm starting to get concerned and wondering if staying in the area is actually the right thing to do for our DC?

I'll summarise what's happened (and I've NC as this is potentially outing to me and to the area I live in).

• There is a sex attacker targeting school children on the loose in the wider area - I've heard of the most recent incident very locally this morning (seems to be groping/intimidation and nothing more serious - yet). We have received letters in school bags about it, and asking us to make sure children walk in groups and are vigilant. My DC are not old enough to walk along yet, but the eldest will be starting next year.
  
• There has been a gang attacking people after dark in streets very close to us - muggings, some burglaries by the sounds of it and one person was attacked on their doorstep. There is an alley I would walk down frequently to get to friends house, doctors etc which now i feel I have to avoid.
  
• There is a moped gang covering the whole of the SE of London, targetting eldery asian women to get thei jewellery (this has been widely covered). They attacked the grandmother of a girl at my DC school right outside the school at pickup time :( MY DD is aware of this because it happend whilst she was at school.
  
• I've had a nutter try to get into my car stopped at traffic lights round the corner from my house about 6 months ago. Luckily my door was locked. A few weeks ago in exactly the same place, a guy of the same description tried to open the door of another local mum (also had door locked thankfully).
  
• There has been a noticible increase in homeless people in the area (which I think has happened around the country). Whilst I am obviously concerned that so many people are ending up in these dire circumstances, there are certain places that people are begging that feel quite intimidating (ie blocking the entrance to shops whilst also drinking). Police intervention doesn't seem to have helped. A few weeks ago a drunk/drugged up man lay down outside our front window and was ranting/swearing/shouting for the entire night. It was very scary and intimidating (shouting racial abuse etc - I thought there was two of them for quite a while until we realised he was basically talking to himself). We called the police who were apparently on their way - they never turned up.
  

I don't want to leave our friends, the school, the localy community and more importantly the place we call home. However I now feel scared, and I am worried about my DC in the area espcially as they grow older and want more independence.

Part of me doesn't want to let the bastards win, part of me thinks this could all get worse (with police cuts etc) and we should really think seriously before we commit ourselves with the new house.

AIBU? Should we really consider leaving for some rural idyll or am I kidding myself and this could all happen anywhere?

[Shiela2017]

I don't understand how anyone can live in London unless they are millionaires....

[NovemberBlues]

gerda sounds utterly grim, dreadful.

I always felt Paris had a much harder under belly than London but I feel London is also going the same way.

[GerdaLovesLili]

Yes, Terrorism doens't really worry me either. Growing up with the IRA doing their thing kind of mutes the immanent threat.

[Oddmanout]

I moved to London just after 7/7 and it was one of the main things that concerned me and I didn't have kids then! At the time the paper talk was of dirty bombs etc so I was definitely worried.

I liked living in London when I was younger after University and I'm glad I got to experience it, but I knew I wouldn't stay and I wouldn't go back now. I lived in what was an 'edgy' area at the time in North London but it was nothing like the stuff you see now acid attacks etc. I don't regret leaving London behind and its there if I ever want to visit.

[MistressDeeCee]

Cecile I live quite near where last sex attack took place. I'm baffled as to why these happen in broad daylight and NOBODY sees? I mean, really?

I still don't feel any less safe than I did, however. Stuff happens outside London too, I think it's a sad indictment of society today really. People turn a blind eye to others in distress. I don't believe a non-London postcode necessarily means safe and idyllic.

The FB local groups, social media in general, crank everything up. It's London - everyone wants to have a pop at the big bad grey city.

However in your shoes I would definitely consider moving. It's ok for me to say it's no worse than everywhere else. But my DDs are grown. I do still worry about them. But I think crime happens everywhere, what can we do except try to be streetwise and vigilant. There are more people around in general aren't there, and more people = more crime.

I'm interested in knowing where the lowest UK crime rates are, actually.

[CecileDeBumblechat]

Mistress I’m assuming somewhere like the outer Hebrides

[spidey66]

We're not millionaires Shiela2017. I'm a nurse, my husband a HCA (both NHS). We're just old enough to have bought our flat when property was actually affordable. Zone 3, reasonable area.

I know we're lucky to have done so, and I feel sorry for young people who don't have that advantage, and also feel despair for the future of London without keyworkers. And I'm not just talking about nurses, teachers etc, I mean cleaners, bin men, retail assistants etc. All very well saying ''if you can't afford to live here, move out to Luton (example) and commute in.....but who would commute from Luton to central London to do a cleaning job?????

[ShirellesFan]

And who could afford to commute from Luton every day, something thats never taken into account. Rail fares are fierce!

[ShirellesFan]

Its £4k annual season ticket Luton to London!

[Trailedanderror]

It's horrible feeling scared.
I live very near to you and am wracking my brains for every instance of crime that's affected my family.
In London
• DD1 was mugged for her phone 10 years ago.
•I had my bag snatched out of the car 15 years ago.
•Cousin had bag snatched out of car 40 years ago.
In the countryside
•I was flashed at and groped 40 years ago.
•my parents were burgled 30 years ago.

All DCs travel to and from school on foot and by public transport. I work in outreach so have to go to Dagenham sometimes DH gets cabs and Ubers and often is in swanky places (swankier than Gail's )
There's a higher perception of crime due to social media and although living out is obviously lovely in lots of respects one common factor all my friends who did so is the insularity of schools and lower quality of education. London schools really are great.

[ChardonnaysPrettySister]

I don't agree it's the social media effect.

I talk to my neighbours all the time and what's happening now simply didn't happen earlier.

[IfyouseeRitaMoreno]

As someone who lives out in the Home Counties I can tell you that yes, it does feel safe out here. House prices are still crazy but social housing is nicer, the schools are good and I don’t worry about DS going out.

Everyone’s polite and there are no gangs. The most menacing thing you’ll ever get is a group of middle class lads trying to walk with a limp and call each other “blue” .

It’s a bit dull sometimes though.

[GerdaLovesLili]

Our area changed noticeably when the university closed down three of its local campuses and the renting student population moved out. The other big shift was when the retired middle class Caribbean population realised that the houses they'd been paying mortgages for for the last 40 years could fund a comfortable retirement back in the Caribbean, so lots of them very understandably went off to warmer. cheaper climes.

[SilverySurfer]

Yes, move, London is riddled with danger and crime while there is none anywhere else in the country, where its a life of halcyon bliss, crimeless and drugless, not forgetting - no drunks

Oh wait, last year my friend got a black eye when a mugger stole her handbag - she lives in Norfolk, my youngest niece was molested by her elder sister's then boyfriend - they live in Oxfordshire, some years ago a friend's daughter was raped - in Yorkshire.

[Oddmanout]

Silvery - No one said London had a monopoly on crime, but it certainly has a lot more than many of other places.

[GerdaLovesLili]

Don't be ridiculous Silvery. Here's a handy cut-out-and-keep guide.

www.ukcrimestats.com/Neighbourhoods/

[GerdaLovesLili]

Whoops/// this link take you to the right page. www.ukcrimestats.com/Police_Forces/

[3Gifts41]

I'd stay within the area if possible but move closer to your dc's school and train / tube station, again if possible.

[Traalaa]

I grew up in Manchester. I was flashed at 3 times before I was 16 and saw lots of violence on the streets - fights, etc. They used to stagger the times the local schools came out to avoid all the fights on the buses. I now live in East London and my son goes to the local comp. He goes to school by himself on public transport, walks through estates, etc, etc, yet I honestly think he's far safer than I ever was as a child. Both his primary and secondary have been great. He has a fantastic mix of mates, the schools are well run, he feels safe and is thriving. Friends bringing up their kids who live in rural market towns (or similar), genuinely seem to be having far more problems than we do. Gangs and drugs, knives, etc are sadly not just a London thing, but most kids just go to school and have a good education/ fun/ get on with their lives.

[streetlife70s]

I know Gerda and anyone that says that hasn’t lived where we live / lived. My grandad who has never even accessed the internet says the same. He is well known in the area and went from walking around freely his whole life to no longer answering the front door as it became a weekly occurrence for druggies to knock on his door asking to come in for a ‘cup of tea’ or some ‘change for the bus or any excuse to get in his house. He has a self imposed curfew of 5pm now. 86 and lived there his whole life. All community has gone. When your home town is known as ‘shank town’ it’s just pitiful.

[Thymeout]

Chardonnay I really think you're being a bit alarmist. I live in Bromley and used to work in Lewisham. My gc happily walk to and from school, play in the parks, go out and about on public transport. I'm racking my brains but all I can think of is a friend's son who was mugged for his phone a couple of years ago by travellers' children.

Central Lewisham certainly went downhill. There seemed to be lots of people with alcohol or mental health problems. You couldn't stand still near the hospital and not be asked for money. But it's changing fast with regeneration and house prices are through the roof. I often meet friends for a pub quiz, travel by train late at night and have never felt uneasy. Lots of people about. Scarier in a suburban street in some ways.

Op - I agree with you about schools. Bromley is better for secondary, I think.

Oh - and the thought of terrorism has never entered my head - and I was in central London on 7/7. And 2 IRA bombings before that.

[ChardonnaysPrettySister]

No, I'm not.

I don't want to do into detail of things happening locally, but the changes have been considerable, and not in a good way.

[ChardonnaysPrettySister]

I've had to ring up 101 a few times in the last months.

never had to do that earlier.

[VileyRose]

I can not imagine living like that at all. YANBU.

[Dozer]

Loads of local crime stats are published if you want to compare locations and look at trends.

Lots of kinds of issues to consider well beyond safety risks, eg disruption to DCs’ education and friendships, family time, access to well paid jobs, housing.

I suspect the risk of nasty road traffic accidents is higher where I am now than in SE London.

If you do decide to move out I wouldn’t prioritise being near relatives, I would prioritise housing, schools and “commutability” to well paid jobs, because those affect daily family life and wellbeing far more. And take account of the potential detriment to quality of life of a time consuming and/or stressful commute, especially if both of you would commute. Lots of women I know gave up well paid jobs in London because both partners commuting was difficult, and the local options are crappy pay.