To not feel safe in London anymore?

[CecileDeBumblechat]

I have lived in London since the age of 18 and in our current area of SE London for a decade now.

I've always felt like we were lucky to live here, safe, very friendly, nice parks etc.

Our DC go to an amazing school, and are very happy kids, with lots of opportunities to do different activities etc. They have loads of friends, as do me and DH, and I love the area. We are planning to move early next year into a bigger place locally (we need more space) and the plan was to stay put at least until the kids have left home.

However in the past year or two I have felt a real shift in how safe I feel in the area, and the amount of incidents that have happened seem to have escalated dramatically. I'm not sure whether part of this is down to local groups on social media and knowing more about what's happened (rather than being blissfully unaware), but I'm starting to get concerned and wondering if staying in the area is actually the right thing to do for our DC?

I'll summarise what's happened (and I've NC as this is potentially outing to me and to the area I live in).

• There is a sex attacker targeting school children on the loose in the wider area - I've heard of the most recent incident very locally this morning (seems to be groping/intimidation and nothing more serious - yet). We have received letters in school bags about it, and asking us to make sure children walk in groups and are vigilant. My DC are not old enough to walk along yet, but the eldest will be starting next year.
• There has been a gang attacking people after dark in streets very close to us - muggings, some burglaries by the sounds of it and one person was attacked on their doorstep. There is an alley I would walk down frequently to get to friends house, doctors etc which now i feel I have to avoid.
• There is a moped gang covering the whole of the SE of London, targetting eldery asian women to get thei jewellery (this has been widely covered). They attacked the grandmother of a girl at my DC school right outside the school at pickup time :( MY DD is aware of this because it happend whilst she was at school.
• I've had a nutter try to get into my car stopped at traffic lights round the corner from my house about 6 months ago. Luckily my door was locked. A few weeks ago in exactly the same place, a guy of the same description tried to open the door of another local mum (also had door locked thankfully).
• There has been a noticible increase in homeless people in the area (which I think has happened around the country). Whilst I am obviously concerned that so many people are ending up in these dire circumstances, there are certain places that people are begging that feel quite intimidating (ie blocking the entrance to shops whilst also drinking). Police intervention doesn't seem to have helped. A few weeks ago a drunk/drugged up man lay down outside our front window and was ranting/swearing/shouting for the entire night. It was very scary and intimidating (shouting racial abuse etc - I thought there was two of them for quite a while until we realised he was basically talking to himself). We called the police who were apparently on their way - they never turned up.

I don't want to leave our friends, the school, the localy community and more importantly the place we call home. However I now feel scared, and I am worried about my DC in the area espcially as they grow older and want more independence.

Part of me doesn't want to let the bastards win, part of me thinks this could all get worse (with police cuts etc) and we should really think seriously before we commit ourselves with the new house.

AIBU? Should we really consider leaving for some rural idyll or am I kidding myself and this could all happen anywhere?

I live in a large northern city and am observing that things feel different in the last few years....rougher, seedier, you have to remain more alert.

Imho it's austerity. Poverty and homelessness are on the rise (massively) and crime is simply survival. Politics is personal.

YANBU

I've been living here for decades and used to feel safe, out and home.

Not anymore. There's a change in the air.

Those who say move firm Lewisham to Bromley, it won't help, there are no safe areas anymore.

I'm in a central bit of East London and personally I haven't felt more anxious about the safety here. There are a lot of reported crimes I read about (acid gangs, sexual assaults, phone snatchers are rife) but to be honest I forget about it when I'm out and about myself and I don't feel less safe on a personal level. There's a lot more homeless people here but I don't find them threatening at all. Our DCs are in outstanding schools and take part in some extracurricular activities here that wouldn't be available elsewhere, plus DH and I can walk to work so I'd hate to leave.

Thanks - it was pre kids and I stayed a few years longer but always either got the which dropped pretty much outside my door or a taxi back after that from Lewisham station. I got £1000 compensation from the Criminal Injuries scheme which financed it but it completely terrified me when they were scanning for brain damage and I knew I'ld never bring my kids up round there. Was nice going into Blackheath / Greenwich though. Police thought it was drugs related and he was attacking one female a night who police said all looked similar (he was going round a wide area), never caught. Happy not to live there now though have lots of good memories too.

Cecile I have boys so the choice for secondary is a bit different, we are not moving that far, I work in SE London and will continue to do so, also the boys will stay at their primary whilst we try and navigate the in year transfer system....I'm hoping it will work out...just a longer school run each day!

We came to the decision as we have friends in the area and also we tend to socialise, shop and go swimming/library in the area as it just has a nicer feel about it. I grew up in the sticks so this has been incredibly scary for me at times, but my husband was born and bred round here so he is much more resilient!

YANBU. I live in North East London, and started feeling extremely unsafe after I was cornered outside my local Tesco. I drive with all doors locked, rarely open the door to unexpected people, check around me while walking, never use my mobile phone while walking, and rarely if ever walk anywhere.
It's not just the fear of acid attacks (high in my area), and muggings, it's general harassment, including sexual harassment. I've lived in London for over 25 years, the suburbs are worse than Central London.

You have rose tinted glasses on. Nowhere is perfect. London may seem like it has so many issues, because it is so populated.
Homelessness, gangs, burglaries, muggings, happen in most places. Try watching the local news of other counties across the UK!
The world is changing everywhere!
Everywhere can be bad, but equally everywhere can be good!
It's not the geographical location that makes your home, but the people in it. If you have a strong community/friendships, they are worth more surely that worrying about what may happen to warrant moving.
Your children may grow up more self aware and more tolerant of others, and show more acceptance.
Do engage with your children on your thoughts/decisions though. Not sure of their age. London has a lot to offer if you move them when they don't want to be moved, you may have a different set of problems right in your home!

GoodSouls - I think I know where you might be moving to. Do you really think the short distance makes much of a difference in terms of safety?

If we were to move away if would be the opposite side out of London (e.g. bucks/oxfordshire) due to family (it's hard enough to get to them at the moment so wouldn't want to make it harder)

sonsmum - I know you are right. It's why I'm torn. I don't want the kids to resent me. But I can't help the uneasy feeling. The first thing I do when I get in the car now is lock the doors. I've had to explain to DD why I do this (I said in case someone nicks my bag, she doesn't know someone tried to get it).

I used to love London, and wished I could afford to live there. And bring kids up there. I work in young offenders institute and there isn't a sum of money great enough that would get me to move my kids into London, and if I lived there I would move out asap.

The gang culture and violence is shocking, and tbh i wouldn't risk it for my son.

It’s really difficult op, I get it. We’ve just bought a family home in what is effectively New Cross —as much as the locals deny it— and I agree that these reports and incidents are terrifying. No advice from me.

Sounds like your near where I am (also se London) so many Stabbings round here it's become the norm. I don't think yabu.

We moved from London for similar reasons you’ve mentioned.
I’d lived in SW London all my life.
I mentioned on here ( once) that l was considering moving back / was it still unsafe?
I was given an absolutely dreadful time.
I’m sorry you’ve been feeling like me, but l’m glad that posters seem a little more measured in their responses.
We live very far from London these days... most places are becoming less ‘rural’ and you can find interesting things to do and places to shop at.
We originally left in 2005... l am sad to read things have continued to frighten people.
I loved London - it was all l knew.

Gangs in every part of London @ClaryFray? Seriously no part of this vast city that doesn't have gangs?! I can assure you that there are no gangs in many parts.

All the poor mums in Highgate who had to hide in the loo of a cafe because one of moped gang smashed the cafe window with a hammer and was robbing people minutes before school kicked out.
When did this happen? I never heard about it or read about it in the local papers.

I’ve said similar things on threads before and been torn to shreds, mainly by people who are die hard Londoners who think the culture is unrivalled anywhere else. Yes, I can see the argument that culturally there is a certain amount of history and arts and theatre that you cannot find elsewhere.

However, op I really agree with you. I was born and raised in London. I consider myself a Londoner at heart but I was mugged by two men in broad daylight in 2006 and it changed my view. I was flashed at in a park in the same year by a man who walked in front of me on a busy path I had walked across many times before. I was stalked by someone who would run up to me and ask if I wanted to come home with him for tea and sex. All these things changed my views.

I moved from London to South Norfolk in 2007. I absolutely love where I live now and wouldn’t ever want to move back. I have raised my two children here and the quality of life we all have is amazing. If we want to we can go to Norwich in 30 mins for the cinema and big shops and locally we have countryside, parks and very low crime rates. I never feel scared out and about on my own. It is like heaven compared to where I used to live.

I can enjoy London for a day out but I would never want to live there again.

I completely understand and yes there has always been more violent crime in big cities for example, but the type of crime is definitely different now eg acid attacks, moped gangs and brazen muggings.

I'm pretty new to London, but we're in N1 and looking at our local newspaper and talking to other school Mums, moped/phone snatching seems to be a thing, but none of the other stuff you mention.

Surely it must vary wildly from area to area? Our area (don't want to name it exactly) feels extremely safe and quiet - far more so than I expected when we moved to zone 2. There are a couple of hotspots for homeless people, but I have never witnessed any antisocial behaviour.

There was a fatal stabbing about half a mile from me during the summer, but then I lived in a quiet area in a very "naice" city before, and man was stabbed 40 times (and yet mysteriously survived??) the next road over. Crime happens anywhere.

If you feel (to the OP) that your particular neighbourhood is not right for you any more, then by all means move, but to say "London" is probably too broad. What you describe is endemic in many towns and cities in England. It's possible that you just need to move to a different part of London.

Hello, I know exactly where you are living as I live there too and send my kids to the same school. I have no advice but am watching with interest. I actually think the area is getting less scary than when we first moved there but I do understand that it feels like there's been a bit of a spate of incidents recently. I think the big problem at the moment is lack of public funding to for example (a) tackle crime; (b) help people with mental health issues stay safe and medicated; but I think that's all over not just our bit of the world. I am still of the mindset that I can't really face leaving London, having grown up somewhere really rural and being a bit in love with it still. Also would have no idea where to go.

"it" being London and the galleries, parks, easy access to stuff to do etc etc

Probably this one fanflabby www.hamhigh.co.uk/news/crime-court/moped-gang-smashes-through-highgate-cafe-window-to-snatch-laptop-from-terrified-customer-1-5268275

Even when I lived in London I always said I'd never raise kids there. I think you're definitely not BU and I totally understand your concerns.

@FanDabbyFloozy I didn't say all of London. But yes there is a lot f gang violence in London. Mainly involving teenagers, that's why I wouldn't risk it.

I'd rather my son grew up far enough away that I don't need to worry about it. That's my view from what I've observed

We moved away from North London 2 years ago having spent our entire lives there (38 years). We were very sad but the area had changed beyond all recognition. There were several attempts to get schoolgirls into white vans. Police notices and school warnings issued. Sexual assaults on boys in broad daylight while with their friends at our local co op. The local park became a no go area after 6pm as a Somali gang had taken over and gang warfare between them and another well known gang made it unsafe. Kids couldn’t ride their bikes anywhere without the threat of older kids threatening them with knives and robbing them of it and it got to the point where I felt I couldn’t go out alone without sexual harassment from groups of men hanging round near ‘social clubs’ (aka cover ups for all sorts of crime) Fireworks night saw 50 kids outside the local petrol station throwing rockets (wtf?!) and I’d see police raids on houses on my way to take my kids to swimming lessons on the weekends. The kids couldn’t have grown up with any freedom. It turned into a total utter shit hole within a decade. Loads of our friends fled too. I still see news reports of murders, knife crime and gun crime on Facebook from our old area every week. It makes me so sad and angry. If any politicians lived where we left I bet it wouldn’t have been left to rot the way it has. We live by the sea now. It’s lovely but I would have rather our home borough hadn’t been allowed to disintegrate into such a cesspit.

Wow - hadn't seen that raid on Gail's in Highgate and all for just a customer's laptops? That's pretty shocking.