To not feel safe in London anymore?

[CecileDeBumblechat]

I have lived in London since the age of 18 and in our current area of SE London for a decade now.

I've always felt like we were lucky to live here, safe, very friendly, nice parks etc.

Our DC go to an amazing school, and are very happy kids, with lots of opportunities to do different activities etc. They have loads of friends, as do me and DH, and I love the area. We are planning to move early next year into a bigger place locally (we need more space) and the plan was to stay put at least until the kids have left home.

However in the past year or two I have felt a real shift in how safe I feel in the area, and the amount of incidents that have happened seem to have escalated dramatically. I'm not sure whether part of this is down to local groups on social media and knowing more about what's happened (rather than being blissfully unaware), but I'm starting to get concerned and wondering if staying in the area is actually the right thing to do for our DC?

I'll summarise what's happened (and I've NC as this is potentially outing to me and to the area I live in).

• There is a sex attacker targeting school children on the loose in the wider area - I've heard of the most recent incident very locally this morning (seems to be groping/intimidation and nothing more serious - yet). We have received letters in school bags about it, and asking us to make sure children walk in groups and are vigilant. My DC are not old enough to walk along yet, but the eldest will be starting next year.
• There has been a gang attacking people after dark in streets very close to us - muggings, some burglaries by the sounds of it and one person was attacked on their doorstep. There is an alley I would walk down frequently to get to friends house, doctors etc which now i feel I have to avoid.
• There is a moped gang covering the whole of the SE of London, targetting eldery asian women to get thei jewellery (this has been widely covered). They attacked the grandmother of a girl at my DC school right outside the school at pickup time :( MY DD is aware of this because it happend whilst she was at school.
• I've had a nutter try to get into my car stopped at traffic lights round the corner from my house about 6 months ago. Luckily my door was locked. A few weeks ago in exactly the same place, a guy of the same description tried to open the door of another local mum (also had door locked thankfully).
• There has been a noticible increase in homeless people in the area (which I think has happened around the country). Whilst I am obviously concerned that so many people are ending up in these dire circumstances, there are certain places that people are begging that feel quite intimidating (ie blocking the entrance to shops whilst also drinking). Police intervention doesn't seem to have helped. A few weeks ago a drunk/drugged up man lay down outside our front window and was ranting/swearing/shouting for the entire night. It was very scary and intimidating (shouting racial abuse etc - I thought there was two of them for quite a while until we realised he was basically talking to himself). We called the police who were apparently on their way - they never turned up.

I don't want to leave our friends, the school, the localy community and more importantly the place we call home. However I now feel scared, and I am worried about my DC in the area espcially as they grow older and want more independence.

Part of me doesn't want to let the bastards win, part of me thinks this could all get worse (with police cuts etc) and we should really think seriously before we commit ourselves with the new house.

AIBU? Should we really consider leaving for some rural idyll or am I kidding myself and this could all happen anywhere?

I've loved in London all my life and there is nowhere other than New York that I would bring up kids in. I've never had any violence, I feel perfectly happy for my teens to be in the west end during the day and I'm yet to come across any kind of gang or gang violence. My children have never seen it either. We've actually been living rurally for a few months and are about to move back into London. I can quite honestly say that I've hated every second of it as have my kids. As we drive into the outer suburbs of London I begin to feel alive and to actually feel life. Obviously there are parts of London which aren't good and have high crime and violence but it's so not on every street

YABU.

London is as safe as anywhere else, it's just that the right-wing media like to paint it as "unsafe" simply because of their war against minorities.

Following this thread with interest as a born, bred & educated SW Londoner. Although I met my husband at uni hes the same as me but SE Londoner.

I have never really entertained the idea of living else well & never been too fazed by crime. I was taught to stay away from drugs and gangs when growing up etc to stay safe. However I do think things have changed, all though I'm not sure if its because I have become a mother and am worried for the future of my son as a teenager. There does seem to be a general increase in violence, increased lack of respect for life that wasn't prevalent in my youth. You don't need to chuck acid at someones face to mug them for example.

On the other hand where would I move too? Suburbia terrifies me and I think growing up in the countryside while idyllic as a child would be bothering as a teenager.

boring not bothering!

gerda I think you live very close to my BIL. He thinks we're nuts for moving out to a quiet town in the commuter belt (lots for the DC to do, decent bus services to a city). I think he's bat shit for staying. I worry about his nice gentle DC, especially his DD. I know shit happens everywhere but the McDonald's in the town centre alone has seen umpteen gang fights and organised brawls with weapons between school children.

If you're looking to move but remain within commutable distance, OP, I'd be inclined to rent for a year in the area you choose and rent our your house. That way, if you find it doesn't suit you, you won't find you can't afford to go back.

I live in a small but affluent rural town that is just about an hour's commute from London. According to the timetables that is. In reality, in the 9 months he commuted, DP found that everything went to plan for fewer than 1 journey in 10. There were a few times he simply couldn't get to work: floods, high winds, landslips, broken level crossings, snow etc.

Getting home at 9.30 instead of 7 was not unusual and he was often out of the house for 14 hours a day. He just about had time to have some dinner and get 8 hours sleep before it was time to get up and go through it all again. Trains were filthy and crowded and he'd often stand most of the way home. This was before the industrial action started on Southern Region, btw, this was in "normal" times.

We have homeless people sleeping in the streets and aggressive beggars here, too, although not in the same numbers. We have a diabolical police service, the nearest police station manned at night is 17 miles away. There are burglaries, we have had several rapes/indecent assaults in town, drunk teens marauding and cars vandalised. Murders are rare though, only 2 in 26 years.

There are other frustrations that are hard to get used to. The nearest hospital is 10 miles away, and a £30 taxi ride. It's very hard to get a taxi late at night unless you've pre-booked it - no Uber! If they haven't got something you need in town, it's a long trip to the next town (this is especially annoying if you've forgotten a vital ingredient for something you intended to eat today, or you need something for a bit of DIY you're halfway through). There's less choice in almost every way, including schools. It's nearly 50 miles to the nearest Ikea!

Like I say, try before you buy. You may find a different area of London my suit you better, even if it means a smaller house.

Trying it out isn’t an easy option with DC in schools, will lose their places immediately on leaving London.

I wish we’d rented before buying though, we had baby and toddler DC, as we probably wouldn’t have bought where we did.

YY to crummy transport meaning commutes are much worse than on paper.

I wouldn’t like any of those things. I live in Surrey, none of those things have happened to me, and feel safe here.
Feeling safe is a big priority. For most.

I can't stand it when people minimise things by saying it's the same everywhere. It really isn't. Where I live you get crime of course but there are very rarely stabbing, muggings in broad daylight, acid attacks etc.

We moved because the crime in se London was getting quite scary and visible and we we both gettting ground down by it. We now live in a lovely part of the south east. Dh still commutes to London but I agree with other posters my well paid career in London pays peanuts where we live now so it was not a great career move unless you are willing to commute. I love London and going back there but I also had many awful experiences while minding my own business like most Londoners do.

I live in Blackheath SE London and it's actually quite boring. I rent a flat the size of a cupboard though.

But the thing is, that a lot of people live in London and lots of us are saying that we haven't experienced those things, don'tbesillyh . It would be idiotic to say that crime doesn't happen in London, but for a lot of people it's not something that taints our lives. That's not to deny those on here who have had problems, it's just not my experience of London living, nor that of lots of others on here.

OuchBollocks Yes, I know bad stuff happens pretty much everywhere there are people, but the tighter packed those people are, the more the bad stuff happens. I'm sick and tired of the almost constant emergency sirens and the inevitable 3am circling of the police helicopter. The statistics tell me all I need to know. I've given up reading MSM and stick to statistical primary sources. And I'm off! (Admittedly, I'll be about an hour's train ride from King's Cross, should the urge for culture overtake me).

Funny how you can recognise your neighbours here on this thread by descriptions of crimes in your area!
I generally feel safe in my life but there have been some nasty crimes locally and there is a big problem with gangs.
What I would say, is that I never, ever (when at home in London) get my phone out of my bag without checking to see who’s around, and it crossing my mind that someone could rip it out of my hand. Its so instinctive, I don’t even notice that I’m doing it. But then we go on holiday to sleepy Devon villages or Norfolk market towns and I find myself not even considering it as a possibility, and I wonder what it would be like to live without that nagging anxiety in the background all the time.

I have always lived in London, in more or less the same location. TBH bad things happened when I was a child, and bad things happen now too. My neighbours were constantly getting burgled, but we didn’t (as my dad was obsessed with security) and yes, there is moped crime now, but there weren’t mobile phones in the 70s/80s & most of 90s, so it’s a new crime. There have always been muggings though. I certainly won’t leave any time soon.

I love it where we live now, but it depends on what you want out of life, really, doesn't it? If you love museums, galleries, bars, varied nightlife, shopping and cultural stuff, then you're going to miss London and feel deprived in the sticks. If you love walking in beautiful countryside, good food and wine, cosy pubs, having a decent garden, that sort of thing, then you're likely to be happy living out of London.

I lived in Highbury for a decade, then moved out to SW London (Kew, Sheen) for a few years. Loved them all for different reasons. We moved to a small town near Guildford in Surrey nearly ten years ago, and it's a lovely place to live. We're in village with shops, pubs, restaurants, a good butcher, a leisure centre and a mainline station, and are 20 minutes walk from a small town (our village has pretty much been absorbed into it, really) which is very pretty and has a decent range of shops. For more of a range of shops/nightlife/whatever, there's Guildford, or it's 45 mins on the train to Waterloo. Very pretty river walks start 5 mins walk away, lots of green space on the doorstep and a 15/20 min drive will take me to some stunning places to walk. It's a totally different life to when we were in London (bigger garden, dog, highlight of the weekend being a heathland walk and a pub lunch, kind of thing), but it suits us and we love it here. As I said, it depends what floats your boat, really!

On the downside, traffic in the adjacent small town isn't great (due to too many people moving down from London and overloading the infrastructure ), there's petty crime, just as there is anywhere, and the couple of years that DP was still commuting into London every day were quite stressful for him. Any problems with the trains and you're fucked, basically. Having said that, he usually got a seat, and 45 mins into Waterloo is a lot better than a lot of people have to suffer. He works in Guildford now, and can walk home or I can pick him up if there's a problem.

No way on earth we would ever choose to move back to London.

I don't think it's a London thing, just a large city thing. I feel just as unsafe on my own in central Birmingham as I do in London. My area (Wiltshire) is pretty low on the list for crime but my nearest city is Bristol which is peppered with awful areas, gangs of yoof on street corners and yelling drunks.

In terms of crime, I was lucky enough not to suffer any in London, really, despite (or maybe because of) living above a local dodgy character and drug dealer. Had my car stolen, though that was found in a nearby road a couple of weeks later, cleaner than when they stole it.

Touch wood, haven't experienced any crime down here, either. Our neighbours are very friendly and there's a good community spirit here. Plenty of whinging numpties on the local faceache groups, but bad parking, occasional senseless vandalism and burglaries aren't really on a par with regular gang violence, acid attacks and violent assaults.

We left Lewisham for the same reasons 3 years ago & moved down to Canterbury.
It started to feel unsafe & the crime got too close to home.

I grew up in London & do really miss It, dh still commutes & it's a nightmare:

We moved to get a little house with a garden & for the kids to grow up in a safer place

I agree to renting somewhere & trying it out for a bit.

I grew up in SE London and didn't particularly like it when I was a teenager. We moved to Shropshire when I was 16 and my life was much better. Lewisham was considered unwelcoming then- 1980s/90's.

My Dad now lives in Peckham near the lovely green bit (Peckham Rye) but even so I visited him last week and we returned on a Saturday night, it was very scary and intimidating and I worry about him at 72 with a broken leg and a cage on it- so mobility problems as he is vunerable. I have to say I did feel at ease when we were back in Sussex. I know that sounds provincial. It doesn't help that London is completely overcrowded now, it's so hectic compared to when I grew up there. There seems no time when the tube is not busy for instance, that wasn't always the case.

Several references here to DHs commuting and posters working locally in lower paid jobs than before, or not at all. That’s a common model where I live, and it has significant implications for women’s careers and earnings.

I'm not from London but we have lived here for years now and would never leave. Other places are just to dull for us. Lets be honest, London is where it's at, and as a family there is always stuff to do and see.

I think it does depend where you are in London.

I lived in SE for 10 years (Deptford, New Cross, Lewisham, Plumstead) and loved living close to Blackheath/Greenwich but never felt particularly safe. Nothing bad happened to me but I would have worried about bringing children up there. I think part of it was that I taught in secondary schools in the area and saw how endemic gangs are there and how hard it is for teenagers to avoid contact with them. I would love to live in Greenwich or somewhere like that but would never be able to afford it. We now live just outside London (as couldnt afford to buy in London) and commute in and I really, really miss the energy and vibrancy of it but also value how safe and clean our area is now that we have children.

I’ve lived in London my whole life. As an adult I’ve always felt pretty safe, but then since having kids I don’t go out after 7pm except on rare occasions. I’ve never really been a victim of crime.
Had some troubles when younger, and used to feel intimidated as a teen but that was partly due to the circles I mixed in. I worry a bit for my kids, don’t want them having the same sort of friends i did!
But I let my oldest out on her own, to walk to school, see friends etc and don’t worry to much (apart from when she’s late home!) she’s a pre teen.

Does anyone have any info on Sydenham Hill, as I might be moving there in the future but this post has made me question that slightly...

Its interesting to see how expensive some parts of SE London are now. If i'm honest there are parts I'm still dubious of due to how they were in my youth. The house prices have definitely gentrified but I don't necessarily think the areas all have.