WWBU - Racial Guilt?

[LyannaStarktheWolfMaid]

I had dinner with some very good friends last night. At two in the morning after a skinful of wine, my friend (who is a British man of Sikh Indian descent) casually threw out the idea that white Brits should feel cultural guilt about the (obviously horrific) cruelty in the history of the British Empire. Cue discussion about cultural guilt in general, e.g. how do Germans feel about the Nazis, etc. To which I responded, as a white Brit, I need to feel guilt about the crimes of my forebears to the same degree that you should feel guilty about the crimes of men against women. General dinner party concensus was that that's completely different. I'm not sure that it is. What do you think?

OK, legally maybe, but look at the problems being caused with having an extreme Hindu head of state (Modi) attacking Muslims. Like Turkey, and unlike the UK, the state may be apolitical but the populace certainly isn't.

I have a few Indian friends and their perception of the empire is different. It seems if you were a lower caste, you had more of an appreciation than those in the higher caste. Is this a thing?

Also, the caste system is no way the same as the class system in this country. The latter is awful and needs to be dismantled but the caste system is dispicable in my view.

Raging. I think that's very sad if you think if you are from the North your children willn ot fit into good univerities (presumably except Durham). The interseting point then is why did my family from the North of England have no such qualms nor felt any barrier? Was that because we were originally Irish immigrants (or at least some of the family was) so we were used to moving albeit 100 years before?

There are certainly a lot of interesting issues and points on this thread. There are very few cultures on the planet without some differences between people ven from the same ethnic group within that country as sadly mankind seems to make distinctions between people - who leads that village or whose wife must do what the husband says etc.

Last it’s not me who thinks the dcs won’t fit at Oxford or whatever!!
I know that they will fit in anywhere if they want to.

But that's not what their peers are telling them, nor is it what is being said around them. Hence they end up believing it will be an issue because everyone around is thinking it’s for them.
More than 80% of the pupils in their secondary school go to Uni in the North. A 50 miles radius max from where we are.

Sorry it should be
everyone around them is thinking it’s NOT for them

The rich and powerful oppressed the poor and weak. Didn't matter where you were in the world. Seeing as I didn't do any of it, I don't feel any guilt or responsibility. Being poor in Britain sucked as much as being poor in the empire - the working class were slaves too. And that's before you get onto women being the property of their husbands etc.

Everyone at that party is leading a life of privilege, simply by virtue of being able to sit around and pontificate at dinner!

RagingFeminist
That was the point in the conversation last night. No one should feel proud nor guilty, (not both as you put) be educated about it & all of the other empires, wars, invasions that have shaped the world we see. I think asking the questions why are we in a privileged position in comparison to other countries without laying the blame on people that had no doing in it becoming that way is important.

. Hence they end up believing it will be an issue because everyone around is thinking it’s for them. .surely this kind of thinking should make you unsuitable for university education anywhere?

Raging in reference to Oxford I think you’ll find that this country only has a couple of prestigious schools and those schools will have a huge mix of pupils from all over the county and internationally. Most children will go to a school that’s the closest to them as a matter of convenience, & remember you also have the choice to move closer to a better school if you wish. I do empathise with ‘not knowing the rules’ but I think most people feel that way regardless of class. From my POV I think ‘the rules’ are becoming more & more outdated. But I don’t see how social class is relevant to the topic except that there are some class privileges.