Topshop gender neutral changing rooms part 2

[BahHumbygge]

Part 1 here

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3080957-To-alert-you-to-the-fact-that-Topshop-just-changed-its-policy-to-let-men-into-the-womens-changing-rooms

Is it that because there are men who like to perve on boys, equality means that the (larger number of) men who like to perve on girls should be allowed

No - that's not what that comment was about.

But that's how it comes across, saga. Why mention it otherwise? As I said it's a transactivist talking point.

But that's how it comes across, saga. Why mention it otherwise

Someone mentioned male changing rooms and thought they were better. They are similar to female ones.

And no doubt there are pervy men doing the same thing to young boys that women are worried about happening to them in similar changing rooms.

That's all.

As I said it's a transactivist talking point

And in case you haven't read my previous posts, I DON'T agree with people like Travis doing what he's done and nor do I agree with self identification

Far more men are straight than gay, saga. Obviously we can't ban men from male changing rooms so it just comes across as an attempt to minimise the issue for women.

Obviously we can't ban men from male changing rooms so it just comes across as an attempt to minimise the issue for women

It wasn't meant to. I get that there is a massive issue for women over this.

I get that there is a massive issue for women over this

Why keep trying to pick holes then?

Why keep trying to pick holes then

Because sometimes the statements people make about the trans community aren't true.

Unless you think it's ok for people to make untrue / inaccurate / misleading statements about a group?

To all those banging on about having no problem with unisex lockable cubicles
TOPSHOP IS A SHOP FOR GIRLS AND WOMEN

It's not gap, that sells both men's and women's clothes. It's not urban outfitters, that sells clothes for both sexes. It's a predominantly for the 15 year old girl - which Travis likes to identify as. So why does a shop for women and girls need unisex changing rooms?

Clearly so that men like Travis can carry on acting out their fantasy that they are a "15 year old yt girl"

Activists on all sides of any debate make misleading / inaccurate / general statements to support their point of view.

It happens here.
It happened with Brexit.
It happens with any debate - and these misleading points can be amplified and repeated until people believe them - and it can have real world consequences.

A lot of men seem to have funny ideas (from porn mainly) about how women behave when they are alone together in situations where they might take their clothes off.

I’ve read numerous accounts of transwomen who are devastated that they missed out on pyjama parties, the onset of menstruation ‘rituals’, etc.

It’s weird mixture of some kind of valley girl American movie and pagan Goddess worshipping in the woods, flitting round a bonfire in white, see-through nighties.

A completely male centric view of young girl hood viewed through the opaque lens of soft porn.

In my experience, the most bonding time with other women involves a lot of cackling and wine coming out of my nose.

TOPSHOP IS A SHOP FOR GIRLS AND WOMEN

I suppose in theory, clothes should be for anyone to wear as men should be able to wear dresses without having to call themselves women.

So maybe there should be a range of cubicles in such shops?

A too-large minority of men are creepy / pervy and of that minority some will go to quite some lengths to access their targets.

Age about 12 - 20 is peak for men being weird and pervy at girls - because the pervy men know that younger girls simply do not know how to react, they are less likely to report it, they are more likely to be upset, scared etc which the pervy men like. This is well known by the vast majority of women.

The changing rooms in topshop with their flimsy curtains and girls aged 12-20 in a state of undress is therefore a pretty clear target.

Topshop have said that men are welcome. Not even transwomen - men who want to go in there.

This is very not good.

The fact that boys fall prey to sexual predators is also appalling but not the point here. I also think that the mechanisms for male predation seem to be different - although not being a man I'm not sure. I know that DH & his friends have never been wanked at by a random. I know that me and all of my friends have.

Why do we need to pretend this is not an issue, while at the same time #metoo is going on?

Yes, they can go into the men's top man changing if it's in the same place.

That does raise a question actually:

I'm aware 'Stephonknee' Walscht identies as a 'trans child' as well part of their identity, and this is part of a sexual relationship with two adults that involves adults enacting anal sex with an adult who is pretending to be a child. Travis also enacts child roles as part of his trans identity.

So where is the line going to be drawn? If a biologically adult male wishes to identify as a seven year old little girl and be allowed to join the local brownie pack, and enact their sexual identity using the other attendees as props? It's only a more obvious version of what Travis is insisting he has the right to do. How will you say no to one but yes to the other?

Or order online and try on at home. This was suggested to girls who might not like men in their changing rooms.

Trans age is very interesting.

In a way it makes much more sense than trans gender as our bodies really do age quite differently depending on genes and lifestyle, some people are always old inside, some always young,our experience of time is highly subjective and changes (old to young, excited and waiting vs not, doing new things vs routine) all affect our experience of time. And time is very much a human made concept.

Having said that, stephonknee and her adopted parents are obviously massive pervs and I am boggled that a. they were consulted on when forming trans policy in whichever country it is (?canada?) and b. that they and the social services allow these people to interact with the actual children in the family (can't remember if it's kids or grandkids).

Why are these people being given airtime? It's just weird. It's like our what the fuck'ometers are blind if the person is trans.

Eventual outcome is:

One space for masculine men
One space for feminine men

Women stay at home.

When we get into hospital wards, doctor visits, access to fitness/sports etc this all starts to impact. Women should not have to "put up" with having men where they really don't want them (and have fought to have them away) or not do whatever it is.

Why are these people being given airtime? It's just weird. It's like our what the fuck'ometers are blind if the person is trans.

I’ve been meaning to compile a list of all the things that change if someone is trans. The things that change something from being unacceptable to acceptable by virtue of a trans status.

On another thread, a woman is testing the waters about going public with her cross dressing husband. Purely by dint of the fact that he was trans, people said how interesting and eccentric he sounded.

One space for masculine men
One space for feminine men

Women stay at home.

Exactly. Or submit to be perved over and used as a prop in someone else's fetish.

Not the same but related. When I was about 20 I had a Saturday job in a betting shop. Obviously mostly male customers. I was serving one one day and just as he was about to pay my male boss (who was a bit of a sexist) came over and said to me, I'll take over here. You go and make us a cup of tea. I was livid, and when he came down I asked him why he had done that. He said that before he came over to pay me he had seen the guy touching himself.

^^ YY

Patriarchy = feminine submission
Trans identified males fetishise it and play at it. A feeling. An identity.
Real women have to live it. Day in day out. Being at the coalface of concrete systems of exploitation, objectification, violence, subjugation and oppressive institutions.

I'm a materialist, not an idealist. Being a woman is a somatic lived reality, not an idea in a male's head ffs

I watched the online interview where 'Stephoknee' talks about dressing as a child and mentions with glee how a male friend discovered they are allowed to kiss each other while Stephoknee is dressed in 6 year old girl outfit. They have licence to act out this out and endorse it because 'transsomething'. I AM LIVID. And I would like to know (if anyone finds out please tell me) why social workers in the US who sanction this (presumably 'board certified' or whatever they say) are allowed to also i assume work with children and provide risk reports on paeodophiles.

Not ok. Not ok. Not ok.

Obviously though - this is now a huge industry for pharm companies and doctors. Every prescription, every operation, all. Adds. Up. $$$$££££££££££££.

I doubt that doctor in wales handing out prescriptions (bet she does private appointments too to be oh so accommodating) would give the same meda to her own children if she has any.

Erishkel that’s horrible. So many of us have had these creepy experiences.