AIBU to withdraw consent for hpv vaccine

[Ilovehamabeads]

Signed the forms ages ago for DD to have the HPV vaccine tomorrow. I didn't really read up on it, other than the NHS info leaflet she bought home with the consent form.
Tomorrow is the day she's due to have the first jab. I'm now regretting signing that form so readily, having read more about it. I know in my head that the stories I've read are just the very, very few that went wrong out of millions. But, at the same time I'm thinking what if..
Would it be totally ridiculous to change my mind at the last minute? I think I just need a few people to tell me I'm an idiot for believing the evidence of a few, over the evidence of many!

Why would your gut know anything about the science and medicine of vaccines? Especially when your brain doesn't.

Go with your gut is the absolute worst advice you can give on a topic that needs brain power and the input of experts.

Experts who are paid either directly or indirectly in kind by the companies selling the vaccines?
Scientific tests of the medicines carried out by those companies?
Whose interests do you expect they put first?

www.cancerresearchuk.org/causes-of-cancer/infections-hpv-and-cancer/hpv-and-cancer

"Up to 8 out of 10 people will be infected with the virus at some point in their lives. HPV infections are usually on the fingers, hands, mouth and genitals. For most people, the body will clear the infection on its own and they will never know they had it. But in some people the infection will stay around for a long time and become persistent.

There are hundreds of different types of HPV. Most are harmless. But around 12 types of HPV can cause cancer. These are called ‘high-risk’ types. People with persistent infections with ‘high-risk’ HPV types are those who are most likely to go on to develop cancer."

An HPV infection on its own doesn't mean cervical cancer - most of us will have had an HPV infection but in more than 90% of cases it clears from the body with no intervention. No mention is made about the risk factors - smoking in particular; nutrition; high number of sexual partners; long term use of the contraceptive pill; family history.

I'm sending ds for the hpv vaccine (and don't get me started on all the nuances of the girls-only policy). My understanding is that it has a wide spectrum application that goes beyond hpv so it seems wholly sensible to give dc the protection.

Experts who are paid either directly or indirectly in kind by the companies selling the vaccines?Scientific tests of the medicines carried out by those companies?Whose interests do you expect they put first?

Oh fucking YAWN, Big Pharma conspiracy nut alert.
Scientists who do cancer research do not have any interest in selling vaccines that don't work or do harm. You know the main, totally fucking obvious reason for that? Because they, and everyone they know, can ALSO GET CANCER.

Fucks sake, try some basic logic before you spew your shit.

I'm in the huge and apparently weird minority on MN of being a cautious vaccinator. I do get most but not all.

I'm carefully watching the HPV vaccine as my kids are too young.

My concern is that girls who have suffered an adverse reaction are not having the side effects as being connected to the vaccine (as they have occurred a few weeks later). There is therefore no evidence the damage was the vaccine.

If it was my child, tomorrow I would wait a few more years until we know a bit more.

The NHS evidence is only as good as the data captured! I dont have faith in that data at present

"Why would you say such a nasty and stupid thing? You can get cervical cancer without hpv."

Not nasty or stupid. The vast majority of cervical cancer cases are caused by HPV infection. Therefore it is correct to say that if a couple got married as virgins and then the woman got cervical cancer, then it is likely that one cheated on the other.

"Nuns get cervical cancer."

Very very few. And of course not all nuns are virgins.

Funny you should mention nuns, actually. The reason why people looked into whether cervical cancer was caused by an STD was that they noticed nuns as a population seem immune to it:

In the early 1900s, epidemiologists noted that prostitutes commonly suffered from cervical cancer, but nuns (who were not sexually active prior to entry into the convent) were rarely afflicted. In addition, scientists observed a high rate of cervical cancer among women who were married to men whose former spouses died from the disease. Such population-based studies led scientists to conclude that a sexually transmitted agent caused cervical cancer. In the late 1970s, German researchers discovered the agent to be HPV.

From here.

"Why would your gut know anything about the science and medicine of vaccines? Especially when your brain doesn't."

^ This.

Very few and rarely literally tells you that it does happen. Otherwise it would be NONE and NEVER.

Non-HPV cancer is a thing.

Oh, and the evidence for the nun thing has been refuted. See here:
www.obgyn.net/obgyn-nurses/nuns-virgins-and-spinsters-rigoni-stern-and-cervical-cancer-revisited

An estimate of the actual mortality rate from cervical cancer suggests that risk of death from this neoplasm among nuns is little different from that among the general female population. It is recommended that nuns should not be excluded from cervical cytology screening

It would be good to know why the virus persists in some and not others.

I likely have the virus (no vaccine when younger). I haven't had an abnormal smear and I'm middle aged. What allows this virus to wreck havoc in some and not others?

Girls who are not sexually active til around 18-20 and who have few sexual partners are a lot less likely to develop cervical cancer - without the HPV vaccine. Fact.

Um.... I contracted HPV from my first sexual partner at the age of 22. Is it a fact that girls who are sexually active late always sleep with virgins? Because that seems unlikely, and obviously wasn't true in my case.

The repeat smears, the colposcopy- I would love to have skipped that. All the things people worry about as side effects are a bit like autism- conditions that make themselves known at the same age as the target population get the vaccine. So, you give MMR at the same age people start to notice autistic traits; you give HPV at an age when teenage girls start to get chronic fatigue syndrome. All the symptoms people have attributed to the vaccine don't come together to form one condition.

I would have loved to have the opportunity to have the vaccine, please do give it to your children.

"very few and rarely literally tells you that it does happen."

I know that. Which is why I said LIKELY and not definitely.

Can you not read? FFS.

I can read. I can read where you told a woman that her father cheated on her dead mother and haven't taken that back even though you appear to be agreeing with me that you had absolutely no need to say such a tittish thing.

WTF is wrong with you?

"Fucks sake, try some basic logic before you spew your shit."

As I said - any other opinions will be shouted down on here - they always always are.
Chance are this obnoxious poster has shares in the vaccines!

"I can read where you told a woman that her father cheated on her dead mother"

I said LIKELY. Repeat after me...... LIKELY. As in probably, not certainly.

It is a perfectly reasonable conclusion the husband likely cheated at some point and infected her with HPV if all of the below statements are correct:

1. Couple married as virgins
2. Wife never cheated on husband
3. Wife had cervical cancer.

The point here is that nearly all cases of cervical cancer are caused by HPV, to the extent that many sources don't even mention other causes. We really should be vaccinating to prevent not only cervical cancer but also anal and mouth/neck cancers, and not consoling ourselves with the likes of "Oh but you can get cervical cancer even if you don't have sex so the vaccine isn't that necessary".

You know what, I’ll report myself for my own comment. I’d welcome a ban. You disgust me

Wormy afaiw there are lots of different strains of hpv. Some are more persistent than others and your immune system finds it harder to get rid of. They are the more dangerous ones as it causes cell changes.

@hotbutteredcrumpetsandtea thank you for pulling up the vile comments about my mum and Dad.

NotReallyArsed - I'm sorry that you took my comment about your dad likely having cheated to cause your mum's cervical cancer as such an insult. It wasn't a character judgement.

I would have thought the same if it was my father. There is actually a blood type disparity in my aunt that suggests that my late grandmother has cheated on my grandfather. If someone points this out, I would just say "Yes, looks like it" and not go nuts, calling that person all sorts of names.

I hope you don't get banned for your outburst, FWIW, but your posts will of course get deleted.

NotReallyArsed - I'm sorry that you took my comment about your dad likely having cheated to cause your mum's cervical cancer as such an insult. It wasn't a character judgement

And how exactly was I supposed to take it? You need to have a long, hard think about the kind of person you are. And then change it. Because comments like that are hurtful, untrue and really, really offensive. I don’t care what you think, to make such a disgusting statement to someone who is grieving speaks volumes about you.

If MNHQ allows you to stay, I’ll ban myself!

You've done the right thing but anyway regardless of what you think she can still consent to the vaccine

You can get HPV without sex too. It’s not even rare. In my very traditional Indian family many girls under 12 have gotten HPV and they weren’t abused. The vaccine is very, very important. It’s the only known cure for the most common form of cervical cancer.

No way was she letting her have it. And as she was not sexually active til 19, and has only had 2 partners, and there is no history of cervical cancer in her family, my niece will probably be fine anyway.

All the women I know who have had cervical cancer started having sex at 13-14 and had had 7-10 different sexual partners by the age of 16.

It's this sort of ignorance that makes me want to scream.

No history of it in my family.

Didn't have sex until 19. Only ever had a couple of partners.

Didn't stop my cancer.

Lies and ignorance help no one.