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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

The zephyrs of change. Trump continued

999 replies

PerkingFaintly · 08/11/2017 18:17

Republicans starting to feel the breeze as diverse Dems have a good election day.

Six lessons learned from US Democrat wins
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41920434

Previous thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3073837-Manafort-Destiny-Trump-continued?pg=1

OP posts:
Thread gallery
37
OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 11/11/2017 09:12

I’m not sure they’ll be able to get tax reform through. I think it might go in a similar way to the healthcare bill.

I did come across this re: tax. I know I shouldn’t be astonished, given that hannity has been describing Moore’s assault on the 14 year old as consensual but is this really how news is reported these days?

Fox News
@FoxNews
.@dagenmcdowell: "To the Democrats who are not helping one iota in this tax reform bill, you lose the right to whine, complain, and moan about it. SHUT UP." #Outnumbered

RedToothBrush · 11/11/2017 09:39

@carolecadwalla and @gavinsblog are talking about this photo and claiming it was taken three weeks ago.

Recognise anyone?

The zephyrs of change. Trump continued
PerkingFaintly · 11/11/2017 10:48

So Boris Johnson with Joseph Mifsud, ie the Maltese "professor" whom Papadopoulos met up with in London.

And... another man. Who seem to pop up all over the place. Who he?

twitter.com/carolecadwalla?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

OP posts:
TheNorthWestPawsage · 11/11/2017 12:18

And the moon is made of blue cheese - believe me!

Mr Trump said on Saturday he had had "two or three" brief conversations with his Russian counterpart at the Asia-Pacific Economic Co-operation (Apec) summit in the port city of Da Nang.
"He (Putin) said he didn't meddle. He said he didn't meddle. I asked him again," he told reporters on Air Force One as he headed to Hanoi.

Trump says Putin insulted by US election meddling claim
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41954436

PerkingFaintly · 11/11/2017 12:35

Well yeah.

There are some statements that reveal nothing whatever about the person who uttered them (because that's what they would say).

And at the same time, reveal a great deal about people who purport to strongly believe them.

OP posts:
PlectrumElectrum · 11/11/2017 12:41

A little off topic but this is just hilarious and frightening. I need to caveat this by saying this is not an episode of Veep.

link here

Shock
OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 11/11/2017 12:45

And sadly that’ll be enough proof for some people.

This was good background to why Moore is being perceived the way he is by some people

Kathryn Brightbill ✒
@KEBrightbill
We should probably talk about how there is a segment of evangelicalism and homeschool culture where the only thing Roy Moore did wrong was initiating sexual contact outside of marriage. 14 year old girls courting adult men isn't entirely uncommon.

Matthew and Maranatha Chapman were promoting child marriage at homeschool conventions up until @HomeschoolAnon and @lovejoyfeminism both made a stink about how Maranatha was only 14 when she married a late-20s Matthew Chapman.
Roy Moore is a symptom of a larger problem in conservative fundamentalist and evangelical circles. It's not a southern problem, it's a fundamentalist problem. Girls who are 14 are seen as potential relationship material. Duck Dynasty guy advocated adult men marrying 16 year olds.
Richard "Little Bear" Wheeler used to praise the idea of early courtship so the girl could be molded to be the best possible helpmeet for her future husband. He praised the idea of directing a girl's education so she could help her future husband in his work.
In retrospect as an adult, what Little Bear Wheeler advocated was basically adult men selecting and then grooming teenage girls before they're old enough to have life experience. It's fundamentally predatory.
Much of the sexual abuse in IFB churches in the US is adult men going after 14 or 15 year old girls, and the girls end up being forced to publicly repent for their "sin" of seducing adult men. Roy Moore is a symptom of that bigger problem.
And then there's Doug Wilson and his habit of protecting adult men who prey on teenage girls. But hey, @TGC and @JohnPiper still love Doug Wilson because he's "right on the gospel."

Evangelicals are going to vote for Roy Moore because what Roy Moore did is not unusual.
I could also talk about the PCA pastor who tried to do church discipline on a homeschool support group leader for the sin of warning support group members that one of his parishioners had been arrested for trying to seduce who he believed was a 14 year old girl online.
Or the other PCA church and umbrella school run by that church that allowed the aforementioned man who tried to arrange sex with a 14 year old girl online to give the invocation at homeschool graduation. It wasn't seen as trying to rape a child, and he was "repentant."
Too much of the evangelical world sees adult men going after 14 year old girls as only wrong if they engage in sexual contact outside of marriage. Or at least they think that way if it's somebody they know and like and think is godly.
I was 14 or 15 when good, respectable church men and homeschool dads started ogling my chest and evangelical purity culture taught that it was my fault, not theirs for ogling a child.
Oh, I remembered something else. Flip Benham, you know, father of the Bigot Twins, the guy went running around North Carolina screaming about trans people being predators? He'd flirt with my friends when we were young teenagers. I've been waiting for a scandal to break with him.
Actually, saying "flirt" is mild. Friends of mine would give Flip Benham shoulder massages in front of everybody and no one batted an eye that the head of Operation Rescue National/Operation Save America was getting shoulder massages from teenage girls.
I need to go cleanse my brain from talking about all of this, but for more information on the problems of sexual predators in evangelical and fundamentalist Christian circles, I highly recommend following @BozT and the excellent work he's doing with @netgrace_org.
Also, read this thread where Amethyst explains and elaborates on why I used the language I used--it'sthe language that reflects how we were taught it.

mobile.twitter.com/AmethystMarieTM/status/928840769003278336

Correction on the Matthew and Maranatha Chapman story, she was 15 and he was 27 when they married. He first expressed interest in her to her father when she was 13, and was given permission to marry her when she was 15. They married a month later.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 11/11/2017 12:47

Manu Raju
Manu Raju
@mkraju
Trump and Putin did not discuss Russian meddling during their 5-minute chat, Kremlin says

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 11/11/2017 12:49

It always astonished me that the maga enthusiasts have no problem with trump choosing to be believe putin over all the American intel agencies. But then I’m astonished by lots of things they do

Kyle Griffin
@kylegriffin1
Washingtonian: Roy Moore spoke with a Republican senator Friday evening, could not deny “kissing” or “dating” teenagers while in his 30s. The senator encouraged Moore to drop out of the race.

t.co/H1H9l8JHHG?amp=1

Natsku · 11/11/2017 12:57

Of course he must believe Putin, who wouldn't believe him? sigh when will maga enthusiasts learn?

cozietoesie · 11/11/2017 13:05

I imagine that the air around 45 has been filled with self satisfied gloating and remarks such as ‘I always knew that.......’ since Moore experienced his .......little local difficulty. Grin Remember that 45 backed his opponent.

The WH will likely not lift a finger in this.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 11/11/2017 13:16

Developing thread: mobile.twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/929335275586715648

Seth Abramson
@SethAbramson
BREAKING: The New York Times appears to be reporting that George Papadopoulos helped write the April 2016 "Mayflower Speech," in which Trump offered Russia a "good deal" on sanctions, and did so after revealing himself to Trump as a Kremlin intermediary.

A London Meeting of an Unlikely Group: How a Trump Adviser Came to Learn of Clinton ‘Dirt’

mobile.nytimes.com/2017/11/10/us/russia-inquiry-trump.html?referer=

Roussette · 11/11/2017 14:46

Plectrum I saw that clip yesterday and my gob was hanging open, how can anyone be so stupid? Actually I know the answer to that because I watched Education's Betsy DeVos's interview for her WH post and it was equally excrutiating.

Just reading the news about George Takei. Such a disappointment, he was (or still is) such a good resistor against Trump on Twitter.

Fekko · 11/11/2017 14:47

What did george T do? What have I missed?

Roussette · 11/11/2017 14:49

He's been accused of sexual assault. He has just written a lengthy twitter thread denying it all. It was decades ago.

Fekko · 11/11/2017 14:49

Nooooooooooooo

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 11/11/2017 14:55

Some of the comments on his thread were saying the source of the story was breitbart and it’s only been reported on Fox et al but I don’t know if that’s true. It would be very sad if he was also a sexual predator.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 11/11/2017 14:58

Investigators probe Trump knowledge of campaign's Russia dealings: sources

mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN1DB04J

(Reuters) - Special counsel Robert Mueller's team has questioned Sam Clovis, co-chairman of President Donald Trump's election campaign, to determine if Trump or top aides knew of the extent of the campaign team's contacts with Russia, two sources familiar with the investigation said on Friday.

The focus of the questions put to Clovis by Mueller's team has not been previously reported.

"The ultimate question Mueller is after is whether candidate Trump and then President-elect Trump knew of the discussions going on with Russia, and who approved or even directed them," said one source. "That is still just a question."

Clovis testified in late October before the grand jury in Mueller's investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election. He is also cooperating with the Senate Intelligence Committee, which is investigating the same issues.

One of the sources described Clovis as "another domino" after former campaign foreign policy adviser George Papadopoulos pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI over his own contacts with Russians during the 2016 election campaign.

"The investigators now know what Papadopoulos was doing on the Russian front, which he initially tried to conceal, and who he told that to," said the other source. "Now [they] want to know whether Clovis and others reported these activities and others related to Russia, and if so, to whom," this source said.

Roussette · 11/11/2017 15:04

I'm hoping it's fake news but there's an interview out there he did with Howard Stern and it doesn't show him in a terribly good light. Big big shame, his voice reached so many. But who knows

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 11/11/2017 15:14

I just read the article in the Hollywood reporter and feel bad about my previous comments about sourcing. It’s not fair to think random internet comments have the same weight and might mitigate against someone speaking out about sexual assault.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 11/11/2017 15:20

Kyle Griffin
@kylegriffin1
Alabama state law gives the governor broad authority to set the date of special elections, NYT reports Gov. Kay Ivey may order a new date for the election—sometime early next year—giving Republicans time to ease Roy Moore from the race.

t.co/RqtBpf2Ngo?amp=1

Shree ✊🏾❤️🇺🇸
@shreec
If this assault on free and fair elections without massive backlash from the public...we’re going down the authoritarian rabbit hole faster than expected.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 11/11/2017 15:49

Wonder if this has anything to do with trump saying comey was political and lying

James Comey
James Comey
@Comey
“If you want truth to go round the world you must hire an express train to pull it; but if you want a lie to go round the world, it will fly; it is light as a feather and a breath will carry it.” Rev. Charles Haddon Spurgeon (1855).

cozietoesie · 11/11/2017 16:52

Comey has finally gone for a ‘Comey’ twitter account? (As opposed to the Reinhold one.) Grin

OuaisMaisBon · 11/11/2017 16:58

George Takei is the only one I have been surprised or saddened by Sad

Dan Rather's latest take on Trump is demoralising in the extreme:

"On Veteran's Day no less. On a day when we honor the service and sacrifice of millions of men and women who swore to defend their beloved nation, its Constitution, its rule of law, and its basic decencies in the face of foreign aggression.

On this day, the President meets with an autocrat, a strongman, an avowed enemy of the freedoms we hold dear. And he takes the assurances of a known spy over the consensus of our entire national security and intelligence communities. He takes the word of a foreign adversary over the men and women who put their lives on the line every day to keep us safe. And then he impugns the reputations of the Americans calling them "political hacks?"

As many of you know, I have been traveling the country on a book tour and meeting Americans of all types, across the political spectrum. They are telling me how worried they are. They know this behavior isn't normal for a Commander in Chief. Not by a long shot. And we cannot allow it to be normalized. And all who choose to excuse it away must be called to account. We cannot let politically convenient expediencies cloud hard facts and reasoned conclusions. We were attacked. This was deliberate and the effects and scale of the attack may not be known for some time. We have a serious and active investigation into possible collusion from members of Mr. Trump's inner circle. There are real questions about what the President may have known, and when (remembering that he must be provided the presumption of innocence).

I am pretty confident how history will judge this moment in the American story. There will be a tally of those who spoke up and those who remained silent. In the meantime, how much harm will be done?"

AcrossthePond55 · 11/11/2017 17:38

So Scrotus says that Putin has assured him he didn't interfere?

Well, that's that then. We can tell Mueller to just disband his investigations then, can't we? Yes, yes, of course we can.

Can someone please get me some Ibuprofen. My eyes hurt from rolling so hard.

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