Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

The zephyrs of change. Trump continued

999 replies

PerkingFaintly · 08/11/2017 18:17

Republicans starting to feel the breeze as diverse Dems have a good election day.

Six lessons learned from US Democrat wins
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41920434

Previous thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3073837-Manafort-Destiny-Trump-continued?pg=1

OP posts:
Thread gallery
37
RedToothBrush · 10/11/2017 09:21

Redtoothbrush I'm tempted to watch that on catchup... is it worth watching, am I going to throw things at the telly?!

It was an excellent documentary.

It will have your jaw glued to the floor and you saying "I don't know how he hasn't punched him". But that's why the documentary is good, but it exposed the jaw dropping attempt at rewriting history.

These people have to be seen to properly understand what is going on in the US. They believe this stuff to be true with sincerity. It's justification for injustice and a demonstration in just how blinkered they are.

It should have you throwing things at the TV. That's why you should watch it, because of the grace and intelligence Gary Younge shows in the face of it.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 10/11/2017 10:15

There's always been a section of the American population that have believed that the Earth is flat, that evolution is a hoax, that the world is only 6000 years old, that Trump is a good President. The problem is that it's growing and this rejection of critical thinking is being even more flagrantly embraced by the right wing media, and now the President. If the facts (or history) doesn't fit your narrative, then it's no bother, just disregard them entirely and call it fake news.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 10/11/2017 10:16

Philippines president says he once stabbed someone to death

www.theguardian.com/world/2017/nov/10/philippines-president-rodrigo-duterte-says-he-once-stabbed-someone-to-death?CMP=twt_gu

This is disturbingly similar to Trump's claim about shooting someone down 5th Avenue. I wonder why Trump reveres Duterte?

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 10/11/2017 10:24

It's not just Americans that face the problem of rejecting critical thinking, and it's obviously not all of them! They do have the perfect storm of white supremacy, ultra conservative religion, GOP and the right wing media all working together to achieve power for themselves though, which has made the problem more pronounced.

I know it's been posted on these threads before but I think it's pretty illuminating

Sharon Furiosa
Sharon Furiosa @sfhater
I think a lot of people who wonder why more Republicans aren't standing up to tRump and Putin are missing the bigger picture.
Putin didn't create the move toward authoritarianism in the US. He took advantage of divisions and right-wing movements active for decades.
Populist and authoritarian movements have existed in the US throughout its history, most notably during and after Reconstruction.
The most current incarnation is an unholy trinity consisting of ultra-wealthy oligarchs, religious right, and white nationalists/populists.
Each of these groups has its own set of goals, and each has been working toward controlling US govt. since at least the 1970s.
What drove them to overlook differences and work together was election of a black president who attempted to pass health reform.
This is how it worked. In late 60s Republicans undertook Southern Strategy to co-opt bigoted white Democrats to Republican party.
They realized that even so they were losing information war and needed to put in place institutions/propaganda to legitimize their policies.
These goals were crystallized in the Powell Memo, which called for business to take America back and laid out the framework for doing so.
This memo resulted in a series of actions by business & the right: set up think tanks to legitimize views; undermine media fairness rules,
and form media companies to serve as propaganda arms, culminating with formation of Fox News and more recently, Breitbart.
At the same time, Evangelicals felt under siege due to the enormous social changes of 60s and 70s - civil rights, women's rights, etc.
Many of these organizations hopped on the corporate/Republican bandwagon and spread propaganda through religious media networks
So you had Pat Robertson's 700 Club, Christian radio networks, and a proliferation of televangelists spreading propaganda for Republicans.
As these religious groups gained more influence with Republicans, they influenced party policies and platforms.
Interestingly, the religious influence meshed with the corporate influence due to its embrace of "Prosperity Theology".
This is a sort of neo-Calvinist view that teaches wealth/success is a sign of god's blessing, and that poverty is the fault of the poor.
This belief has several negative outcomes. First, it makes poverty a personal problem rather than a systemic problem that govt. can solve.
Second, it prevents examination of the negative effects of income/wealth inequality and the systems that promote it.
It also leads poor to hold out hope that they're just "not rich yet" and to identify with the rich who rig the system for themselves.
The final leg in the unholy trinity is the white nationalists, who have also been known as populists, militia, Neo-Nazis, KKK, etc.
These groups have waxed and waned, but tend to revive whenever white men feel a particular threat to their entitlement (Obama/ Hillary).
Their interests overlap with religious right, which seeks a biblical rule (Christian Sharia Law if you will) that subordinates women to men.
Since Obama took office in 2008, this Unholy Trinity has worked full time to undermine Liberal Democracy and shift the Rep Party rightward.
Wealthy Oligarchs such as Kochs and Mercers funded training and campaigns for far-right candidates.
They also worked to undermine restrictions on soft money and influence of wealth on elections through such cases as Citizens United.
Corporate and religious right-wing media stoked a non-stop propaganda machine to gain support of white working class via racism/fear.
Putin's interests overlap with the Unholy Trinity (Christianity/Oligarchy/White Nationalism), and situation provided perfect opportunity.
'm done for now - but keep these things in mind when you wonder why Republicans don't stand up to Putin. They mostly agree with him.
END

FOR FURTHER READING:

See the the text of the Powell Memo, along with analysis of its content, here: t.co/5paXFGizxM?amp=1

For a good summary of Prosperity Theology, see this Wikipedia entry:
t.co/MptTMZkFfN?amp=1

This article explains Nixon's Southern Strategy and how it made Trump possible: t.co/D4hmZcw5yZ?amp=1

This post discusses many US Oligarchs and how they funded the nation's shift rightward: t.co/UbhfWIEm1X?amp=1

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 10/11/2017 10:40

Mueller Probes Flynn’s Role in Alleged Plan to Deliver Cleric to Turkey

Under alleged plan, ex-Trump adviser and his son were to be paid millions to forcibly remove Fethullah Gulen from U.S. and deliver him to Turkish custody

WASHINGTON—Special Counsel Robert Mueller is investigating an alleged plan involving former White House National Security Adviser Mike Flynn to forcibly remove a Muslim cleric living in the U.S. and deliver him to Turkey in return for millions of dollars, according to people familiar with the investigation.

Under the alleged proposal, Mr. Flynn and his son, Michael Flynn Jr., were to be paid as much as $15 million for delivering Fethullah Gulen to the Turkish government, according to people with knowledge of discussions Mr. Flynn had with Turkish representatives. President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, who has pressed the U.S. to extradite him, views the cleric as a political enemy.

Federal Bureau of Investigation agents have asked at least four individuals about a meeting in mid-December at the ‘21’ Club in New York City, where Mr. Flynn and representatives of the Turkish government discussed removing Mr. Gulen, according to people with knowledge of the FBI’s inquiries. The discussions allegedly involved the possibility of transporting Mr. Gulen on a private jet to the Turkish prison island of Imrali, according to one of the people who has spoken to the FBI.

The investigation is being handled by Mr. Mueller as part of his probe of Trump campaign advisers and Russian interference in the 2016 election, according to those familiar with the investigation.

cozietoesie · 10/11/2017 11:56

Than,s, Pain.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 10/11/2017 12:51

ABC News
@ABC
NEW: George Papadopoulos, ex-Trump aide who pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI, initially misled agents out of what he claimed was loyalty to the president, source tells abcn.ws/2yO3jER

TheNorthWestPawsage · 10/11/2017 13:25

Trump associates are getting buried in massive legal fees, and Roger Stone says his are more than $450,000

Some want help from Trump's reelection campaign
(Good luck with that one, guys!)
amp.businessinsider.com/roger-stone-legal-fees-trump-russia-2017-11

TheNorthWestPawsage · 10/11/2017 13:30

Not his usual colour...

President Trump tonight, wearing traditional shirt for dinner at international summit in Danang, Vietnam
twitter.com/jonlemire/status/928976584484278272

The zephyrs of change. Trump continued
TheNorthWestPawsage · 10/11/2017 13:42

Pull the other one!

No formal Trump Putin meeting @PressSec says. Only that they may "bump" into each other
twitter.com/acosta/status/928859119292993537

The zephyrs of change. Trump continued
AcrossthePond55 · 10/11/2017 13:44

Under alleged plan, ex-Trump adviser and his son were to be paid millions to forcibly remove Fethullah Gulen from U.S. and deliver him to Turkish custody

I don't know why but this has really upses me. It's just so fucking 'mafia' and thuggish. I guess I've always felt that that was where the 'line' would have been drawn. That no one in 'power' would ever send someone to his death for money. It's just so inhuman.

cozietoesie · 10/11/2017 13:56

It’s blatant.

PerkingFaintly · 10/11/2017 14:52

What's the betting they happen to "bump into each other" for a good hour with no one but Russians within earshot, like at the G20 dinner in Germany?

OP posts:
cozietoesie · 10/11/2017 15:15

I seem to recall that the Russian authorities have said that there will be a meeting. (Although they haven’t said where and for how long.)

cozietoesie · 10/11/2017 15:24

Allegedly, of course. Grin

Roussette · 10/11/2017 16:02

Bloody hell, what a sight for sore eyes, Trump in that monstrous tent like shirt. It must've used a whole bale of material to run that up!

As for the Putin meeting, course it isn't scheduled, that means he'll have no other officials there and it can't be reported on.

cozietoesie · 10/11/2017 17:57

Such a cynic, Roussette. Wink

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 10/11/2017 19:17

Sarah Kendzior
@sarahkendzior
Threats to election integrity include:

  • repressive voter ID laws
  • bogus "voter fraud" commission
  • foreign interference
  • machines vulnerable to hackers And more:

thecorrespondent.com/7595/voter-id-laws-hackers-gerrymandering-just-how-much-can-a-democracy-take/2148246638615-79620214

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 10/11/2017 19:24

Natasha Bertrand
@NatashaBertrand
ROHRABACHER now reportedly in Mueller’s crosshairs over a meeting he allegedly had with Flynn in Sept 2016 >

www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/amp/mueller-probing-pre-election-flynn-meeting-pro-russia-congressman-n819676

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 10/11/2017 19:30

Renato Mariotti
@renato_mariotti
THREAD: What does news that Mueller is looking at Flynn's pre-election conversation with pro-Putin Congressman Dana Rohrabacher mean for the Mueller investigation?

1/ Today @NBCNews reported that Mueller is questioning witnesses and reviewing emails about an alleged September 2016 meeting between Flynn and Rohrabacher.
2/ This is a good example of why criminal investigations take time to complete. Mueller saw emails about this meeting, which led him to ask questions about it. If the meeting appears to be important, Mueller may question Rohrabacher. That interview may lead to others, and so on.
3/ Rohrabacher is known as an intensely pro-Putin Congressman who has advocated for the end of the Magnitsky Act, which punishes certain Russians believed to be involved in Magnitsky's death. He also recently met with Assange and tried to broker a deal to pardon him.
4/ For that reason, many will find today's news interesting. But this doesn't mean, in itself, that Mueller is looking to charge Rohrabacher. He may care about Rohrabacher's meeting solely because it helps his case against Flynn.
5/ So I would not leap to the conclusion that Mueller is investigating Rohrabacher's other pro-Russia activities, even though they raise serious questions. But like anyone who is within the sights of a federal prosecutor, Rohrabacher should be very careful going forward. /end

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 10/11/2017 19:32

Alex Isenstadt
@politicoalex
NEWS: The NRSC has removed itself from its joint fundraising agreement with Roy Moore, per new paperwork just filed

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 10/11/2017 19:34

@kylegriffin1
WSJ: Cambridge Analytica said it reached out to Julian Assange to share Clinton-related emails in ‘early June 2016,’ when the company had already started working for the campaign.

www.wsj.com/amp/articles/data-firms-wikileaks-outreach-came-as-it-joined-trump-campaign-1510339346

The chief executive of Cambridge Analytica contacted the founder of WikiLeaks to ask him to share Hillary Clinton -related emails at the same time that people familiar with the matter say the British data-analytics firm had begun working for President Donald Trump’s campaign.

Cambridge Analytica CEO Alexander Nix said Thursday he asked the office that handles his speaking engagements to contact WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange in “early June 2016,” after reading a newspaper report that WikiLeaks planned to publish a trove of Clinton-related emails. He said Mr. Assange was asked “if he might share that information with us.”

“We received a message back from them that he didn’t want to and wasn’t able to, and that was the end of the story,” Mr. Nix said at the digital conference Web Summit in Lisbon. He called the exchange “very benign.”

When Mr. Nix’s approach to WikiLeaks was reported by The Wall Street Journal last month, it wasn’t clear whether Cambridge was working for the Trump campaign at the time. Federal Election Commission records show the first payment by the campaign to Cambridge Analytica is dated July 29, 2016.

New details about the timing of Cambridge Analytica’s Trump campaign work show that the firm’s effort to obtain the Clinton emails—which U.S. intelligence agencies later determined had been stolen by Russian intelligence and given to the Sweden-based WikiLeaks—came as the company was in the advanced stages of contract negotiations with the campaign and had already dispatched employees to help it.

Mr. Nix first pitched Mr. Trump’s advisers on working with Cambridge Analytica in mid-May, after Steve Bannon —who went on to become White House chief strategist—introduced them, according to people familiar with the matter. In the first week of June, the company dispatched a small team to San Antonio, where Mr. Trump’s digital operation was based, according to people familiar with the company’s hiring.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 10/11/2017 19:34

Happy Friday! Wine

cozietoesie · 10/11/2017 19:47

Moore’s apparent rapprochement with McConnell didn’t last too long. Wink

cozietoesie · 10/11/2017 19:48

Oh - and Happy Friday to you also, Pain. Gin