To be terrified that this is the future for the UK? (Sorry, yes it's a Brexit one)

[Rainbunny]

The US Commerce Secretary just made a speech in which he demands that the UK scrap EU food standards on GM crops and animal farming standards after Brexit. Even more sinister were his words indicating that the USA expects to have influence in whatever Brexit deal the UK makes... "He said that it was critical that US interests must be taken into account when finalising an exit deal with the EU..!"

This is exactly what I've been afraid of and it looks to be coming true and the UK as a lone country will not be able to refuse whatever trade deal the USA demands. I get that people who voted leave are still happy they did but is this what they want to have happen?

www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/us-brexit-eu-uk-trade-deal-wilbur-ross-commerce-secretary-imports-exports-european-union-a8040571.html

Caroline, could you point me to an EU reg, that you find particularly cosh-like? Top 3 worst ones even?

One thing that surprises me most is that I struggle to find a single Leaver who has changed their minds, despite more and more evidence that Brexit is a bad idea. They all seem to think it's still the best thing ever and going swimmingly.

Rees mogg just said that

A number of people who were on the fence (ive translated that to mean voted remain) are now enthusiastic about brexit

Enthusiastic seems a bit strong...i am rarely enthusiastic about anything except popping to the pub for tea

Perhaps the arrant hatred that continues to be expressed towards leavers on fora such as this has caused a degree of retrenchment.

No i just reckon he is talking bollocks

Not surprised people have retrenched or are pretending all is well, nor that some remainers are thinking "just get on with it". Sad though.

I think this period is about continuing to make the arguments. We'll need them where we're going.

I dont hate anyone

Except maybe gove

Yeah i think thats it

I think the vast majority of people that voted are bored senseless by the whole thing now

A lot of people weren't politically switched on before , whether they voted reman or leave, and the bickering doesnt make them want to get involved now

They just want someone to sort it out

Most of the leave voters I know have forgotten about it/lost interest.

The ones who are still passionate about it now, the true brexiteers have some weird views. Yeah, maybe they've decided their politics based on a few haters on mn, could be.

rufus

He does talk an awful lot of bollocks does Mogg.

One prominent leave campaigner who thinks we now face disaster twitter.com/petenorth303

Also bus promise man, Dominic Cummings www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/brexit-dominic-cummings-vote-leave_uk_595b62bbe4b02734df33fbc0

"So Caroline you are saying that we should forgo one type of protectionism , which we currently benefit from as a partner in a trading bloc and swap it for doing trade deals with one of the most protectionist countries on the planet ?"

That sentence doesnt make sense frumpety.

"Caroline, could you point me to an EU reg, that you find particularly cosh-like? Top 3 worst ones even"

Anlaf, we're under the 'cosh' of the EU. They control all regs that we trade by. If we err, they discipline us.

"But then we'll fall on WTO rules which will require us to justify why the scientific and technical information we have is enough for us to discriminate against the US by setting UK standards which don't allow chlorinated chicken."

Were already under WTO rules and regs. The EU is under WTO rules and regs. You misunderstand the WTO. (Not surprisingly, the amount of mis-information out there).

There's no glorious destiny for us to embrace, just obscurity. Nobody else cares about the 1950s glory days. All they see is a deluded country, shooting itself spectacularly in the foot.

^^ This with bells on.

Everyone I know from outside the UK, and that's a lot of people due to my work, everyone, was shocked, surprised and baffled that the UK voted leave.

This is why education is so important. I'm not going to say that all leave voters are uneducated as it's blatantly not true, but I will say that all the ones I've met were not well educated.

"One thing that surprises me most is that I struggle to find a single Leaver who has changed their minds, despite more and more evidence that Brexit is a bad idea"

Because the evidence isnt out there to say its 'bad', Kenn Dodd (Happy Birthday by the way

There only ever been 'opinion' saying its 'bad'. and plenty of it.

The evidence is absolutely demonstrating the 'opinion' is utterly wrong. Thats why. (If youd like a bit of evidence, you know, real stuff, see the 'Rumour has it' thread. I wont bore, with repeating here.)

Anlaf, we're under the 'cosh' of the EU. They control all regs that we trade by. If we err, they discipline us.

Caroline you do realise we are part of the EU don't you? You need to change the 'they' to 'we'. We control all regs that we, as a trading bloc, trade by.

'There's no glorious destiny for us to embrace, just obscurity. Nobody else cares about the 1950s glory days. All they see is a deluded country, shooting itself spectacularly in the foot.'

This. ^^

Nobody else cares about the 1950s glory days

Oh I dunno, it is a phrase a lot of remainers seem to use sneeringly, so they seem to care.

Caroline - I agree about opinions, but remainers only deal in "facts" (their opinions). No-one on this thread shows any sign of a view other than leavers are all rascist bigogs with no brain and we (remainers) are all bright and clever forward thinkjng intellectuals who know all the facts all the time.

Caroline which bit didn't make sense ? I accept it isn't my best work by a long shot though

I don't trust the UK to maintain things like food standards, workers' rights and safety regulations on its own, no, not at all - not under the Tories at least. They are clearly, in terms of policy rather than simpering speeches outside no. 10, out to make the rich richer and the poor poorer, maintain the systems that perpetuate inequality (like grammar schools) and do everything they can for big business owners. Scrapping rights and regulations is a key part of that, and some Tories openly argue for it because it's good for business.

"I think this period is about continuing to make the arguments"

This only stands up if your argument is based on real stuff. Facts. Etc. Arguing "we're all going to die because such and such said so" isnt an argument.

Its being 'forgotten' (and yes you have to do a lot of ignoring of this ridiculous political circus thats going on at the moment) because, pretty much eveything brexiteers said would happen if we voted leave, is happening. (FTSE hits highest levels in history. UK investment strengthening daily. Job creation climbing steadily. Banking recruitment up. Wage growth, finally after 10 years of stagnation, is on the up. Politics in mainland europe etc etc etc)

Everything remainers said would happen, hasnt. And not only that, but they would now have us believe, well if it hasnt happened now it will any way.

Has anyone asked the likes of EY why theyve recruited 4000 new staff this year for the UK markets? Has anyone asked them why theyre NOT listening to that remainer god Peter North or mumsnetters?

Just touching on, outsiders views. Heres a view thats well worth repeating. Caution. Contains triggers.


globalbritain.co.uk/a-german-perspective-on-the-brexit-negotiations/

I don't hate leavers. They are half the nation. I voted remain but we just have to make the best of it. I still don't support Brexit but we have no choice now as the people voted.

On this issue you can always grow your own or find a local farm and buy there. Do watch out for US food though as even things like their bread have added sugar in. it's really awful at times.

"We control all regs that we, as a trading bloc, trade by"

and thats what the US are saying. How can we do a bi-lateral UK/US trade deal when you (the UK) have to run to Brussels (the 'we) for approval. You cant. Either the UK does have authority and absolute control to make such agreements, or it doesnt. In the EU, it doesnt.

"I don't trust the UK to maintain things like food standards, workers' rights and safety regulations on its own, no, not at all "

And youre entitled to your opinion. Theres thousands of food safety experts, employment lawyers etc etc working daily to do just that, who would be highly offended by your view of their work.

I'm sure they're professional enough to cope with my views, Caroline. But it's MPs who make the law, that's why we have parliamentary majorities and governments so that the party in power can impose their will - even if experts do advise on and implement it.

I found this letter to the FT about Britain's possible trade deal with the US:

Sir, US commerce secretary Wilbur Ross has pointed to some highly political choices to be made by this country (“US warns UK to avoid trade ‘hindrances’ in Brussels divorce deal”, November 7). He has also made clear that after Brexit the UK will not, after all, be able to have its cake and eat it.

If Britain wants a closer economic relationship with the US it should, apparently, be ready to make changes: to abandon some of its current food and environmental protection standards, to remove public authorities’ responsibility for type approval of motor vehicles, to rein in ambitions to regulate the “digital space”, and to provide opportunities for US influence on its standards-setting and regulation.

Some of these suggestions are directly contrary to British economic interests. Why would the British government abandon the EU type approval system for motor vehicles, essential for access to the dominant export market for British producers? Other suggestions reflect ignorance of, or disregard for, the political choices that lie behind current EU food regulations or, in the case of regulating the digital space, the active public debate in Europe about the need to reinforce the responsibility of internet service providers for content on their websites.

Mr Ross did not say what the US side might offer in return: no mention of encouraging foreign participation in US financial services or civil aviation markets, or relaxing Buy America provisions in US public procurement. His silence suggests that the current US administration has a rather one-sided view of economic partnership.