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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask WWYD re inheritance

279 replies

littleteethies · 06/11/2017 16:52

I'll try to keep this as brief as poss, more of a WWYD I think
DM and DF bought a house 20 years ago (v nice location, meant for their retirement) months before DM passed away (v sudden and unexpected). DF met someone else (let's call her W from witch) v soon after (months) and again v soon after that he retired, sold his business interests and moved in with W into said house.
I did find it all rushed at the time but I was 20 hrs old, devastated after losing DM and just wanted DF to be happy. There was never any conflict between me and W, quite the opposite, although as the years went by I came to realise she was very selfish towards DF and just not a nice person.
About 5 years ago, DF's health deteriorated and I believe he and W have arranged wills. In a casual convo they told me that the agreement is that the surviving partner gets to remain in the house until their death, at which point it will be sold and split equally between me and W's son.
I had no objection whatsoever, my main concern was DF getting better and I even refused to talk about wills and inheritance and things like that. The justification was that W has sold her property whilst living with DF and given DF half the value of the house - I find this vv hard to believe as DF also sold another 2 properties whilst with her (again bought together with DM), had a pension and still worked; there's no way he could have spent all that money. But as it was now her home as well I felt that was the right thing to do.
My DF passed away too a couple of years ago, it completely floored me and the last thing on my mind was this house. Before the funeral she told me it would cost £8k to "read the will" and as we already know what their agreement was, there is no point to waste so much money.
I kept in v close contact with W, mainly because I felt she was a kind of link I had with DF's memory but as months went by this link started to fade and she became somewhat disinterested. However every time I went to see her, take her out for lunch etc she made a point of telling me how her son has given her money for various home improvements and generally pointing out many negatives about the house - they all seemed if not made up, then greatly exaggerated.
This made me somehow suspicious so one day over lunch I've casually asked to see DF's will. All hell broke loose, she started screaming at me, calling me names and stormed off. Just like that.
She has not spoken to me since, although bar a birthday card and a card for an anniversary, I've made no attempt either. I have though searched online and there is no will logged with DF's name; I've also looked up land registry records and the house has been in her name since 2003 (I presume DF's name was also on it and taken off).
I guess my question would be If there's anywhere to go from here? If the house is now solely in her name and I don't have a copy of DF's will, does that mean I have no claim whatsoever? Is there any point paying a solicitor?
It's hell of a lot of money to say goodbye to, but what kills me is it's the house DM bought and envisaged retiring in and this nasty woman got everything DM didn't have a chance to. And why didn't I say anything to DF at the time, but that's another thread.

OP posts:
JohnHunter · 07/11/2017 10:09

This thread is wonderful. I hope @littleteethies keeps it updated until the end. It sounds as if W is going to get her comeuppance...

littleteethies · 07/11/2017 10:18

From all I gathered so far, I believe they were tenants in common due to the restriction on the land registry.
She may have taken the restriction off by lying there is no nok just like she did to the bank, or she may have taken the restriction off by showing a mirror will albeit a non-executed one (I presume mirror wills still need executing? and if she had such a will why wouldn't she just execute it and get rid of me unequivocally?).
So it will come down to whether a will exists and if it does, whether it's mutual or mirror.

OP posts:
CoraPirbright · 07/11/2017 10:24

Gosh it definitely sounds as if she has committed fraud - such a blatant lie! What an awful woman.

Also this: Please don't contact her again, if she thinks you're into her she may start to try and transfer assets to her son so they're out of your reach.. Excellent advice. Let W think that you have just let it all go after her tantrum whilst you quietly get your ducks in a row.

Good luck - we are all rooting for you. It’s not the money, its the principal and unfairness of it!

MissConductUS · 07/11/2017 10:27

I presume mirror wills still need executing?

Of course they do.

and if she had such a will why wouldn't she just execute it and get rid of me unequivocally?

She would have run to the courthouse like her arse was on fire if that had been the case. Grin

She's playing a long con game and hoping no one notices. Lawyer up dear, today if possible.

4teensandababy · 07/11/2017 10:27

Nothing useful to add, but just wanted to wish you luck OP. Please see this through, keep strong, and don't forget to keep us updated!

SloeSloeQuickQuickGin · 07/11/2017 10:31

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it quite usual for solicitors to retain a copy of wills they'd drawn up?

A copy isnt an original. A will isnt valid unless it is signed. So a copy at the solicitors may show intent but it sint legal, it isnt valid. Im quite sure my solicitor has a copy of my will, but its worthless seeing as I just ripped up the original and wrote a new one . Grin

ijustwannadance · 07/11/2017 10:31

If there was a will and she didn't like what it said she could've got rid.

I think she's been keeping you sweet so that if she died it would be too late for you to do anything and her DS would get everything.

She probably thinks you will leave it and not fight.

GabriellaMontez · 07/11/2017 10:36

Good luck sorting this OP. It certainly sounds like she's been up to no good. I hope its not too stressful putting this right.

GabriellaMontez · 07/11/2017 10:37

And yes, lawyer up asap!

LoverOfCake · 07/11/2017 10:41

Good luck with this. I believe that defrauding the deceased is in fact quite a serious offence...

ProfessorPickles · 07/11/2017 10:44

She couldn’t sound more dodgy!

AnnieHoo · 07/11/2017 10:45

Would the bank give you 6 months of statements if you brought ID to prove you are NOK? Would you still need something to say you are administration? I don’t know much just thinking of things you can do while waiting for legal advice. You don’t want to alter her too much as others have said.

I feel for you so much, she is awful. The fact that she told you it would cost £8k to read the will BEFORE you’re father had even been buried speaks volumes about her.

Wherearemymarbles · 07/11/2017 11:06

Go and see the bank with your ID. They will be very helpful if they think fraud is committed. Then maybe police but defintely a good laywer. Again the info from the bank will be very helpful.

She has deliberately defrAuded the bank and land registry. So It seems

  1. Either no will and she didnt want to lose the house
  2. Will left half to you which she didnt want so destroyed it

Either way, as they weren’t married she is in a very weak positon and a very nasty person.

SuitedandBooted · 07/11/2017 11:24

The comments from the bank show that she is a lying, scheming fraudster.
Don't talk to her at all - gather all the information you can (make copies) and find a good probate/estate specialist ASAP. Let her think you aren't pursuing it more.

I am frankly staggered that your father's girlfriend can just approach the bank and Land Registry, claim there is no NOK, and be so readily believed. Having absolutely no heirs at all is quite rare - inheritance rights can run a long, long way. When my late mother's unmarried (only child) cousin died intestate, we had to take out notices in the newpapers, and pay for specialist insurance before the estate was distributed, in case other unknown claimants came forward.

I hope you can resolve this, and recover what both your parents wanted you to have.

londonmummy1966 · 07/11/2017 11:27

Not a lawyer but I've dealt with a lot of estates and contentious probate in my time. You do need a solicitor to sort this out - I suggest you go to the website for the specialist Society of Trust and Estate Practitioners (STEP) and use their search facility to find a solicitor with experience in probate and inheritance issues in your father's area.
www.step.org/member-directory

If you have problems with the bank then you could see if someone who works for that bank is a STEP member (most banks have STEP members) and speak to them.
The £8k W mentioned might well be the inheritance tax bill payable on your father's death.
One further thought - not my area at all - but you could ask a solicitor if it is possible to put some form of caution on the land registry title whilst this is being sorted out.

MissConductUS · 07/11/2017 11:41

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it quite usual for solicitors to retain a copy of wills they'd drawn up?

They do. Mine has the signed, notarized original of mine so that he can start the probate when I die. If I wanted to amend it I'd have to do so with him or if I did a new one myself it would have to be presented in court by someone to show that it superseded the one he has.

If I did a new one with another attorney, he or she would present it in court, and the newer date would cause it to prevail.

Sayhellotothelittlefella · 07/11/2017 11:44

I might be wrong and I haven't read right to the end but even if she did go to the bank and tell them there was no will and no NOK surely the bank cannot act on her say so and close the account etc. Surely his name then goes onto Bono Vacantia the list of people dying intestate and any money is still left. Selling the car etc does sound like fraud as it was part of his estate.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 07/11/2017 11:48

A will isnt valid unless it is signed. So a copy at the solicitors may show intent but it isnt legal, it isnt valid

You're absolutely right and I blame myself for not thinking of that Blush

littleteethies there no longer seems any doubt W's a fraudster, but I don't know if you ever said how long ago your lunch was - the one where you asked again about the will and she went mad? I don't want to be discouraging but am just wondering how long she's had since then to twist things further or dispose of anything she's stolen ...

TammyswansonTwo · 07/11/2017 11:58

Go and see a lawyer and get them to write her a letter insisting that you see a copy of the will. If he's not registered publicly then it sounds to me like it never went to probate, which means none of the legal processes have been followed which is a massive concern. Besides which, there may have been other sentimental items left to you and other things besides property / money that are important.

Don't let this go - it's not the money, it's the principle that his final wishes must be carried out.

My mum died and left us is a complicated mess with her absolute shit of a husband but at the least her will was followed to the letter.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 07/11/2017 12:10

Yes that's also true MissConduct, so I guess it comes down to hunting for a (signed) will, and since "W" can't be approached (and wouldn't help even if she was) I can only hope OP has started searching her late DF's local solicitors

I hate to drag this in, but I wonder how easy the late DF's signature was to forge, and what the chances are of W ... errr ... "finding" a will in her favour? Hmm

MissConductUS · 07/11/2017 12:42

I hate to drag this in, but I wonder how easy the late DF's signature was to forge, and what the chances are of W ... errr ... "finding" a will in her favour?

Good question! Here the signing of a will requires witnesses. I suspect you have similar protections in the UK.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 07/11/2017 12:50

Here the signing of a will requires witnesses

Not surprisingly it's the same in the UK ... however it wouldn't be the first time this had been tried

Gazelda · 07/11/2017 12:52

Wow! I echo the advice to get yourself a solicitor ASAP. Not one from their village, obviously! Good luck

TammyswansonTwo · 07/11/2017 13:05

Just read about the bank. Jesus Christ.

First stop, solicitors. Today if you can.
Next stop, police.

After dealing with my mum's husband's bullshit since her death, things like this make me so angry. Don't let her get away with it!

Alittlepotofrosie · 07/11/2017 14:32

Following closely as when FIL passes away i think we will be in a similar situation!

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